Bonds Ties Babe Ruth!!!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by troutman

There is no rule in baseball against murder either. 'Roids are illegal and there was NO justification in taking them irregardless of what rules baseball had.

Yes there was. Money. Millions and millions of dollars in money.

As far as your first comment, I don't see the point. Should Major League Baseball begin prosecuting ball players accused of murder themselves?

Baseball - and every other sport/league in the world - only has the responsibility to act in the best interest of itself. The legality of certain actions are the responsibility of society at large. That is why Ty Cobb, one of the most despicable people to ever live, is in the HOF, while Shoeless Joe Jackson is banished forever. Being a racist does not impact the play on the field. Taking money to throw games does.

MLB completely failed in this responsibility because drug use has definitely changed the game. However, it was making everyone money, and since nobody was complaining, they let it slide. The players, the owners, the league, the FANS all have a responsibility for the travesty that has occurred for the last decade or longer.

We cheered Brady Anderson when he hit 50 HRs all roided up.

We cheered McGwire and Sosa.

And if he wasnt such a despicable person, we would be cheering Bonds too.

It's easy to blame everyone else, but we as fans have acted as enablers for them to cheat.

[moon]

Well Bonds just passed Babe and has a ways to go to get to Aaron so hopefully this means we don't need to hear anymore about a guy that is having an awful year and is lucky he is a great player chasing history or it is doubtful he would have a place in the Giants line-up anymore.

[JBR]

Try this on.

Barry Bonds is a real nice guy who gets along well with his teammates, cooperates with the media (relishes it) and treats his fans with respect. He also pariticpates in HR derby's, all-star games and Celebrity golf events.

Mark McGuire was exposed when his "trainer" came under federal investigation. He is a complete jerk. He loathes the media and is extremely rude to them and his fans. His teammates don't like him, and he doesn't care for them. He is a racist.

If this were the case, we all would have held a parade when Bonds hit #71 to pass McGuire "The Cheat". The nation would have been completely wrapped up in it. People would now be sitting on the edge of their seats anticipating every homerun. ESPN would cut to live at-bats.

Don't lose sight of these 2 facts:

1) McGuire - Steroids - Great Baseball Player. Decent person
2) Bonds - Steroids - Better Baseball Player. Bad person

Neither of these people affect me in my everyday life. I don't really care what they are taking. If all players would like to cut their lifespan by years to hit some dingers, make more tackles, TD's, world records... Go ahead. I'm not just talking about these 2 clowns.

[habernac]

I don't think anyone on this board would defend McGwire either. At least he pretty much came out and said he was on Andro. Though he didn't have much to say about it at the congressional hearings if I remember correctly.

[CaramonLS]

You'd be seeing Mark McGwire take his fair share of heat if he was actually relevent today.

No one in their right mind is going to defend McGwire, especially after that embarrassing performance he put on during the congressional hearings - Bonds is very lucky to have been excused from that.

The proof will be when McGwire's name comes up for the hall of fame and he will be just as vilified as Bonds is to a degree. Keep in mind he isn't going for any all time records and he isn't still playing baseball, but he will get his fair share soon.

Now Giambi on the other hand, is pretty much let off the hook. He too isn't chasing down any all time records and is at least proving that he has some real talent without the roids. He also made that psuedo admission of guilt, which is much more than Bonds has done. I think if Barry took a path Similar to Giambi, he wouldn't be taking all of the heat. Being a complete jerk doesn't help the situation, but owning it would go a long way toward getting people off your back.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by habernac

I don't think anyone on this board would defend McGwire either. At least he pretty much came out and said he was on Andro. Though he didn't have much to say about it at the congressional hearings if I remember correctly.

It's a small distinction, but McGwire has not denied using Andro, I dunno, in some time. He fessed up to it, so to speak, even during his run, when you could see the jar behind him in his locker giving interviews.

Technically speaking, Androstenedione is not a steroid. It does encourage more tesosterone output (so it may as well be).

Kind of wish Bonds did it somewhere like Philly instead of at home. I love how the sportsheads say, "He wanted to do it in San Fran ..." well, of course he did, can you imagine the jeers if he did it elsewhere?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by JBR

Try this on.

Barry Bonds is a real nice guy who gets along well with his teammates, cooperates with the media (relishes it) and treats his fans with respect. He also pariticpates in HR derby's, all-star games and Celebrity golf events.

Mark McGuire was exposed when his "trainer" came under federal investigation. He is a complete jerk. He loathes the media and is extremely rude to them and his fans. His teammates don't like him, and he doesn't care for them. He is a racist.

If this were the case, we all would have held a parade when Bonds hit #71 to pass McGuire "The Cheat". The nation would have been completely wrapped up in it. People would now be sitting on the edge of their seats anticipating every homerun. ESPN would cut to live at-bats.

Don't lose sight of these 2 facts:

1) McGuire - Steroids - Great Baseball Player. Decent person
2) Bonds - Steroids - Better Baseball Player. Bad person

Neither of these people affect me in my everyday life. I don't really care what they are taking. If all players would like to cut their lifespan by years to hit some dingers, make more tackles, TD's, world records... Go ahead. I'm not just talking about these 2 clowns.

I'm not so sure I understand your point.

Of course everyone looks at Bonds in a different light.

If you have a very personable, alleged cheat who owns up to using a substance that was not "Technically illegal"
vs
A complete @$$hole who is an alleged cheat who denies taking every performance enhancing drug under the sun despite a ton of evidence that he did so,
Of course everyone is going to not like the Later guy even more.

McGuire and Bonds are probably both cheaters but one has partially admitted that he took substances that helped him (Illegal or not), and the other is a complete jerk who expects us to believe that he gained 40 lbs, and wen't from being a really fast agile 30 HR guy into a gorilla who hits bombs all day on pure work ethic?

Nice guy + even slightly honest >>>> Jerk + complete liar

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I'm not so sure I understand your point.

Of course everyone looks at Bonds in a different light.

If you have a very personable, alleged cheat who owns up to using a substance that was not "Technically illegal"
vs
A complete @$$hole who is an alleged cheat who denies taking every performance enhancing drug under the sun despite a ton of evidence that he did so,
Of course everyone is going to not like the Later guy even more.

McGuire and Bonds are probably both cheaters but one has partially admitted that he took substances that helped him (Illegal or not), and the other is a complete jerk who expects us to believe that he gained 40 lbs, and wen't from being a really fast agile 30 HR guy into a gorilla who hits bombs all day on pure work ethic?

Nice guy + even slightly honest >>>> Jerk + complete liar

All I'm saying is... Judge the athlete, not the person. Maybe Billy Crystal will make a new movie... 715*

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by JBR

All I'm saying is... Judge the athlete, not the person. Maybe Billy Crystal will make a new movie... 715*

I don't think it's possible to judge one without the other.
Let's say they were all clean, I'd still think Barry Bonds is a jerk and I wouldn't want him to break any records.

Alexi Yashin used to be a great hockey player but he was a jerk so I didn't like him and wanted him to do badly.

Stephane Yelle isn't a great hockey player but he's a great guy, so why does everyone like him so much?

Athletes are public figures, so it's not supprising that their personality is taken into account when people judge their accomplishments.

[troutman]

Mark must have been on much more than andro:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/...oids.baseball/

Asked by St. Louis congressman William Clay whether he could assure fans he had played "with honesty and integrity," McGwire said, "I'm not going to go into the past or talk about my past. I'm here to make a positive influence on this."

He also refused to address allegations of steroid use leveled against him and other ballplayers by his one-time Oakland A's teammate Jose Canseco -- the author of a recent tell-all book on the issue -- and said he would not be "naming names."

"My lawyers have advised me that I cannot answer these questions without jeopardizing my friends, my family and myself," McGwire said.

McGwire retired in 2001. He has previously admitted using androstenedione, a precursor to anabolic steroids and a legal substance at the time.

When Clay, a Democrat, asked what other substances he may have used, he said, "I'm not here to talk about the past."

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Oh, I don't doubt that McGwire was on some drugs other than Andro, but at the very least he admitted to that. Bonds has repetedly said that it's prety much all natural, which is total crap.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Oh, I don't doubt that McGwire was on some drugs other than Andro, but at the very least he admitted to that. Bonds has repetedly said that it's prety much all natural, which is total crap.

No he hasn't. He's said he didn't knowingly take steroids.

Moreover, when given the opportunity to come clean in front of Congress Mac refused to do so.

Birds of the same feather from where I stand. If you hate one, hate them both.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I'm not saying McGwire was 100% honest, but at least he did acknowledge taking Andro, it isn't much, but it's a start.

Like I said, they're both cheats, but Mac is marginally more honest, and infinatley more personable. Sure theyr'e both cheats, but my original point was that of course people are gonna treat them differently, because one of them is an ******* and the other is a pretty nice guy.Either way, I don't really care, as I hate baseball anyway.