Terror group beheads U.S. hostage

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by albertGQ@Sep 21 2004, 02:02 AM


It should also be noted that some Iraqi's view the US as a terrorist group. You can ask the same question to the States...........What right does a terrorist group like the US army have to come into a soverign country like Iraq and dictate what the Iraqi people supposedly want?.

Don't accuse me of justifying the beheadings either because I am not. I am just pointing out that there is more then one way to look at every situation

A. I didn't accuse you of anything.
B. What you say may be true, but events that happen the world are always worthy of evaluation based on the events alone. That's all I'm asking Flames Addiction to do. Evaluate the event on its own. It seems when the US is involved, he's incapable or unwilling to do that.
C. I'm well aware there is more than one way to look at every situation and I definitely do not need someone like you to open my eyes to that effect. It's a little presumptuous and pretentious of you to assume that I can only view things in one way.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by kipperfan+Sep 21 2004, 02:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kipperfan @ Sep 21 2004, 02:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Sep 21 2004, 02:28 AM
Albert I would state that there is a much different thing between people who are collateral dammage or die unfortunantly and people who are murdered by having their heads chopped off. It seems to me as though that is a huge difference between the American Military and these terrorist groups. you may not view the invasion as a good thing but time will tell whether getting rid of Saddam was a positive for the people or a negative. I would tend to lean more towards the former than the latter.

It may seem to YOU that way. But how it seems to YOU is irrelevant.

If you were a innicent citizen miles away from any military targets, and some foriegn military bombed your home, killed your family, with no reason other than they suspect militants may hide out their, how would you feel, it may seem diferent to you when your blood dies for no justifiable reason.

And lets say some militants do hide out in a public place or building, is it worth killing 20 innocent people to get at and murder two militants?? [/b][/quote]
There is a difference of targetting individuals and beheading them and having someone accidently die in warfare. You make the point (or at least what I was able to gather) that one death is one death no matter which way you cut it, however that isn't true in your life or in my life. If somoene close to you dies in a car accident is the individual who was behind the wheel of the other car at the same level as someone who kidnaps and beheads someone close to you. Would you feel the same?

They are completely different. Accidental deaths have a place in warfare whether one likes to admit it or not. Kidnapping civilians, showing them on the internet, making demands for something, when this doesn't happen (and it is a good thing that it doesn't) they chop the civilians heads off and put the video on the internet which does two things, shows they mean business, and helps to enlist people to join their cause.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Sep 20 2004, 04:52 PM
Anyhoo, my original point was not to argue for or against the occupation, but only to point out the simple logic that the beheadings will stop when the Americans are out. It seems reasonable considering that before the occuaption, there were no beheadings of American mercenaries being posted on the internet.

It's a precedent that can't be reset...

Before WWII, there were no piloted missiles and the "suicide bomb" wasn't really known as a weapon. The kamikaze bombers changed that. Now, even though that war is over, there are still parties using planes as missiles and committing suicide in the act of murdering.

The precedent has been set for internet beheadings...I don't see them being limited to Iraq, but rather limited to those who are animals enough to commit them. Ending the occupation will reduce the number of potential victims, but this won't necessarily stay just an Iraqi phenomenon.

[Daradon]

Crazy Flamer has the point though. Irregardless of whether you supporteed the invasion or not, if the U.S. left now, things are just going to get worse, and a LOT worse very quickly.

I just wish they had a better exit strategy or hadn't underestimated how much force (in numbers) it would take to stabilize the country. They did have plenty of warnings.

In trying to eradicate terrorism they've created a haven for it, which was a lot of people's arguments for not going in there (at least the way they did) in the first place. Plus with all the jail stuff uncovered they've p*ssed off a whole new generation of people in the middle east.

But we still need them to succeed. We don't want to see anymore lives lost on either end. Maybe it's time for the rest of the world to get involved en masse.

Although the only way I would support that is if the U.S. came out publically and said it fabricated the 'evidence' in the case against Iraq and admitted some sort of, not as strong a word as fault, but you know where I'm going. Mistake or wrong doing, something to that effect.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I would have supported a 'liberation' of Iraq for 'humaitarian purposes' but if you are going to lie to me, I'm not going to listen to you. If they can say, ok, we were wrong about the WMD's but we need some help now to give these people and this world a free country, I would support that.

We all know politicians lie, but to support them anyway, or to not get vocal about it simply makes it worse for the future. Especially when the stakes are so high. They are elected officals, not kings.

[Faid1]

If these guys need to kill someone to make a point, the least they could do is do it fast.

Instead, these jackasses slowly cut off his head while he is still alive with a knife that is less than sharp.

[Flame On]

There's really no way to see this other than wrong. Whether or not you agree with the US as being there and how they went there and what they're doing while there and whether they're commiting attrocities or not, this is one.
In theory it's true though, fewer americans are going to be beheaded in Iraq, if there's no American there to be beheaded. Sure it might continue outside, or somehow capture one inside, but on the whole it's going to all but disappear.

[calgaryred]

If the Americans left Iraq tommorrow these militant terrorist groups would not stop beheading people. They would start on diffrent groups. They enjoy the idea of ruling a country by fear. With no Saddam they see themselves as the power. Power by force! They can butcher the Koran to defend anything they do. In the end it's all about power. Now they are kiddnapping people and demanding things that don't exist. Such as releasing iraqi women from prison are are only two. Both were part of the Saddam regime. It's getting silly! When Nicholas Berg was beheaded the world gasped now it happens weekly and it's getting foolish and silly. It's not even top stories anymore. I think the headless totally exceeds twenty by now. pretty sad!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Cube Inmate@Sep 21 2004, 06:26 AM
It's a precedent that can't be reset...

Before WWII, there were no piloted missiles and the "suicide bomb" wasn't really known as a weapon. The kamikaze bombers changed that. Now, even though that war is over, there are still parties using planes as missiles and committing suicide in the act of murdering.

The precedent has been set for internet beheadings...I don't see them being limited to Iraq, but rather limited to those who are animals enough to commit them. Ending the occupation will reduce the number of potential victims, but this won't necessarily stay just an Iraqi phenomenon.

Beheadings are nothing new to human history. Only a few generations ago, it was still a prime mode of execution in the west to.

The recent beheadings set no precedence what so ever.

[CaptainCrunch]

Reds right, if the American's packed up and left tommorrow ending the occupation, these terrorists would just go after other groups and be emboldened for it. They aren't fighting for thier people, they would rather have them poor and suffering so it would be easier to recruit them.

These things are like cancer and sometimes you have to take radical measures to save the patient.

The only thing that they understand is perceived strength, they don't negotiate in good faith, and they have no sense of compassion.

I stand by my earlier statement.

They should boil these woman that they want (if they exist) in oil and then return it to them. Can't find Bin Laden, start killing off his wife and kids and make him suffer

I shouldn't be posting these things when I'm p*ssed off, but a part of me has probably decided that since brute violence is the only thing these people understand, thats how we should teach the lessons.

Sorry

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Sep 21 2004, 03:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Sep 21 2004, 03:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cube Inmate@Sep 21 2004, 06:26 AM
It's a precedent that can't be reset...

Before WWII, there were no piloted missiles and the "suicide bomb" wasn't really known as a weapon. The kamikaze bombers changed that. Now, even though that war is over, there are still parties using planes as missiles and committing suicide in the act of murdering.

The precedent has been set for internet beheadings...I don't see them being limited to Iraq, but rather limited to those who are animals enough to commit them. Ending the occupation will reduce the number of potential victims, but this won't necessarily stay just an Iraqi phenomenon.

Beheadings are nothing new to human history. Only a few generations ago, it was still a prime mode of execution in the west to.

The recent beheadings set no precedence what so ever. [/b][/quote]
Your right beheading have been used as punishment, usually after some kind of trial (even if its a drumhead)

Also beheadings were done by a sharp sword or axe because it was believed that that method of execution was at least somewhat humane.

These idiots are basically sawing people off on the internet.

These terrorists are the legit government of nothing. They aren't governed by the rules of the geneva convention so I guess it would be ok for the americans to saw thier heads off without a trial when they are captured.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Bad news...

Another one today.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by calgaryred@Sep 21 2004, 09:34 AM
It's not even top stories anymore. I think the headless totally exceeds twenty by now. pretty sad!

I was thinking the same thing. We (or I) have already become desensitized to it.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Sep 21 2004, 09:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Sep 21 2004, 09:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cube Inmate@Sep 21 2004, 06:26 AM
It's a precedent that can't be reset...

Before WWII, there were no piloted missiles and the "suicide bomb" wasn't really known as a weapon. The kamikaze bombers changed that. Now, even though that war is over, there are still parties using planes as missiles and committing suicide in the act of murdering.

The precedent has been set for internet beheadings...I don't see them being limited to Iraq, but rather limited to those who are animals enough to commit them. Ending the occupation will reduce the number of potential victims, but this won't necessarily stay just an Iraqi phenomenon.

Beheadings are nothing new to human history. Only a few generations ago, it was still a prime mode of execution in the west to.

The recent beheadings set no precedence what so ever. [/b][/quote]
And a few generations ago they were done by terrorists and posted on the internet, were they?

[Cowperson]

In spite of the deaths, this BBC article says independent contractors are lining up to get into Iraq for reconstruction contracts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3676856.stm

Cowperson

[???]

captains remarks remind me of an article i read about the russian spetzna.back in the eighties, some terrorist took an embassy hostage. a few days later the spetsnaz stormed the embassy kiddnaping a few terrorists. next day several decapitated terrorist heads were sent back with promise of more too come. my favorite qoute from the article "the remaining hostages were quickly freed".

[Cowperson]

The Americans were executed in the face of a terrorist demand that the USA free all women prisoners it holds in Iraq.

The Americans say they hold no women in Iraqi prisons and only two unnamed females altogether.

Who are those two unnamed females. The answer is in this story:

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09...omen/index.html

I wonder why the terrorists want these two freed?

Cowperson

[Otto-matic]

Other American

CNN reports that too

[The Familia]

Originally posted by Otto-matic@Sep 20 2004, 10:06 PM
Your 100% right Captain.

Im sick of hearing about there religon and they have to kill people just for the religon.

There going back to the stoneage and will hit rock bottom very soon.

They already are in the stoneage. What kind of civilized or advanced society uses some kind of bloody machetty (sp) to hack off a prisoners head? People can say what they want about George Bush, but no other man has had the balls to go in and clean house like Bush has. Call me a racist or whatever you like, but I suggest just cleaning house in that whole middle east area. Nothing but trouble has ever come out of that place. Supposedly their religion tells them to do this kind of stuff. I call BS. The real Islam is supposedly a peaceful religion, but for a good majority of followers, they have taken some scriptural content (from Quoran) and turned it around to do what they are doing. I have never heard of any religion that condones this sort of behaviour, especially in the time period we live in now. I know every religion has it's own backgroud and history and a good portion of it is not good, but this is ridiculous. It's tiem to put an end to this non sence, and get these (EDIT BY MODERATOR) under controll.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by The Familia@Sep 21 2004, 03:43 PM
Call me a racist or whatever you like, but I suggest just cleaning house in that whole middle east area.

Okay. You are a racist.

Just what exactly does "clean house" mean? Kill everybody?

You might want to do a quick headcount of "terrorists" and "non-terrorists" as well. You might find that a "good majority" of the 1.5 billion people are not terrorists.

[peter12]

To Capn Crunch - beheadings were just as inhumane back when as now. Some reports say it took 16 swings of the axe to kill Mary Queen of Scots.

To all: Read about the guerilla warfare in Peninsula War. French invaded Spain illegally. Thus started the guerilleros, they beheaded and did worse things to their French prisoners. Historical hindsight sees these men as good guys... Not justifying the acts whatsoever, just this is nothing new.

By the way, about the suicide bomb... we have the IRA to blame for inventing that particular method, not the Japanese.