Religious differences a challenge for world: PM

[Draug]

Originally posted by sbailey924@Sep 21 2004, 11:07 AM
To me, I hesitate to use the word "religion" because of all the negative connotations that come with it. To me, "religion" is organized and dangerous. I tend to use the word "spirituality" much more. I consider myself heavily spiritual, and I find it shocking that the same fundamentalist protestants that are so against Catholicism's hierarchial practice tend to blindly follow what their church leaders (Christian Coalition, Focus on the Family, etc.) tell them to as far as social issues. It's pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

I'm also surprised by how many people tend to think that the "Left Behind" book series are new additions to the Bible. The thinking that the world is coming to an end soon is dangerous. If you think that way, then sooner than later the world will end (global warming, war, etc.).

First, I agree with your assesment of the word 'religion'. Regarding Christianity, I would use the word 'faith', and it is indeed 'spiritual'.

Second, blindly following anything, is not intelligent. However, when that teaching is based on the foundations of an organizations beliefs, I wouldnt call it 'blind following'. As far as I know, Focus on the Family is tightly based on Christian teachings.

Regarding the Left Behind series, of course they are not new additions to the Bible. They do illustrate the Rapture, which is discussed in the Bible. Left Behind does not present an idea that is new to the Bible, and is clearly not an addition to it.

Lastly, Christians believe that the world will end, because it is written in the Bible, and the Bible is the core foundation of their beliefs. Revelation 21:1 states - "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away". I agree with you, it is dangerous to live as if the world is going to end tomorrow, and in fact, the Bible instructs that a Christian is not to live that way. But, you should see why a Christain believes the world will end at some time.

[Draug]

I've always said that the thing that turns me off about religion and the bible is that it is tended to and written by a flawed creature.

The Bible is often referred to as "The Word of God". A Christian believes that the scriptures are in fact the words of God, put to paper by people God used to do so.

Even though the bible talks about the 7 deadly sins and the 10 commandments they've put into place aspirations that are nice for every human to strive for, but impossible to achieve due to our nature. Thats a flaw especially when you consider that the church judges a person based on thier abilitiy to follow gods law, yet the bible also contains the phrase "Judge not unless you wish to be judged yourself" (The CaptainCrunch translation). so you have to ask yourself, who should be doing the judging?

It should not be the church, or its people that do the judging. Judging should be left to God, and God alone.

The one thing that religion tries to strip from every man is independance from forming your own form of worship. Is the church of god not within the beating heart of every man woman and child? And if it is, is there any point to going to church?

No, the church of any god is not in the hearts of every man, woman, and child. You so much as said so yourself, when above you stated that it is not possible for a human to achieve compliance to the 10 commandments.

[sbailey924]

I grew up in what many would call a typical Southern-Baptist, Bible Belt Church (although compared to many I know of, it was relatively liberal). I never really let too many opinions of fellow churchgoers bother me, until after September 11. After that day, people slowly began showing their intolerance towards others--particularly Muslims (which were often called obscene names)--more openly...that's not what Christ taught us to do. Politics began infiltrating the church, and, when there was a statewide vote to implement a state lottery, the church actually put in its bulletin to vote "no". Last year during a youth weekend I went back home to help with, one of my role models from a child was telling a kid that there is no such thing as global warming, and, if it were true, God would take care of us. That's not the thinking that adults need to be teaching kids. They need to be teaching them that God made the Earth, and we need to protect it. Heck, my roommate's mom (same church) got told by someone that if you vote for a Democrat, then you go to Hell.

True, religion could be good if it is a healthy community of believers. However, it seems that today it is impossible to keep church and state separate (honestly, my spiritual beliefs have influenced my political leanings further left). I can't honestly consider myself a member of that church, and it will be quite hard for me to be an actual member of any in the future. Attend? Of course (for advice, as that's all I see sermons as).

[Daradon]

'No, the church of any god is not in the hearts of every man, woman, and child. You so much as said so yourself, when above you stated that it is not possible for a human to achieve compliance to the 10 commandments. '

Ahhhh, Jesus DID teach that 'where two or more gather in My name, I am there', and 'under a stone you will find my church'. In fact...

'And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! , lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:20-21, KJV

Jesus did teach that faith, love, indeed, God and the church were inside us or all around us. It is the organized church that has twisted his meanings and given us the need for buildings and rules.

[Cheese]

what should Daradon do? hmmm... I hope hes not a United pentacostal Evangelist!

What Must I do to Be saved?


Jewish Christians in 50 AD
Circumcised according to Moses: Acts15:2


Lutheran, Catholic, Anglican
Infant Baptism + Confirmation


United Pentecostal
Believe, baptized + speak in tongues


TV Evangelists
Place hand on TV set & give lots of $


United
Be a basically good moral person


Mormon
Through faith & commitment of spouse


Catholic
Priest absolves you of sin after death


United
Preached into heaven at funeral


Baptist, Pentecostal, Alliance
Pray sinners prayer & ask Jesus into heart


Presbyterian, Calvinist
Wait for direct action of the Holy Spirit


Methodist, Calvinist 1850AD
Mourners bench to "get religion"


Unitarian
Nothing: hell doesn’t exist!


Baptist, Pentecostal, Alliance
"Faith only"


Some false teacher
Believe & wear red socks


God
Believe, repent, confess, baptized, faithful

[CaramonLS]

When I hear the Word Religion, the first thing I think of is that the Catholic church in the United states is the largest money making organization in the world.

The Morman Church is right up there with them, has a much smaller following, but they Church is extremely strict on its members Tithing 10% of their earnings.

Its amazing how some of the greatest moral ideas have caused so much harm in the world.

How many people have been blown up in the name of Allah?

How many Knights struck down pagans during the Crusades?

Didn't Joan of Arc claim to be hearing God speak to her?

Some of the principals of religion are great and are a good moral standard for people to follow. But it amazing how much Evil lurks inside Religion and how it has followed it throughout history.

It wasn't until around the 1500s where the Bible was actually converted from Hebrew into a langauge that people could read... until then the English Monarchy/Church just got the citizens to follow like sheep.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by CaramonLS@Sep 22 2004, 03:34 AM
When I hear the Word Religion, the first thing I think of is that the Catholic church in the United states is the largest money making organization in the world.

The Morman Church is right up there with them, has a much smaller following, but they Church is extremely strict on its members Tithing 10% of their earnings.

Its amazing how some of the greatest moral ideas have caused so much harm in the world.

How many people have been blown up in the name of Allah?

How many Knights struck down pagans during the Crusades?

Didn't Joan of Arc claim to be hearing God speak to her?

Some of the principals of religion are great and are a good moral standard for people to follow. But it amazing how much Evil lurks inside Religion and how it has followed it throughout history.

It wasn't until around the 1500s where the Bible was actually converted from Hebrew into a langauge that people could read... until then the English Monarchy/Church just got the citizens to follow like sheep.

I think we're getting carried away with blaming organized religion for acts of violence around the world.

I think its key to seperate fanaticism from religion

How many people have been blown up in the name of Allah?

Is that the act of a religion or the act or fanatics, I'd say the later. Its like blaming the catholic church for abortion clinic bombings. Its not the church its the people that interepret thier religion in thier own way.

How many Knights struck down pagans during the Crusades?

I've always thought that this was a series of knights and thier vassels with nothing to do but hide behind thier religion and find a war. but the crusades are contrary to a church who's main commandment is though shalt not kill.

Didn't Joan of Arc claim to be hearing God speak to her?

According to her, and people chose to believe her because they were too scared or ignorant to not believe her. Joan of Arc was a fanatic.

When I hear the Word Religion, the first thing I think of is that the Catholic church in the United states is the largest money making organization in the world.

I don't believe that the Catholic church collects tithe (sp?) anymore. And you can't really begrudge the church on its fund raising since it does gain the majority of its donations in affluential regions. And its voluntary donations, so its members are being charitable which is one of the tenants of that church

[CaramonLS]

See I hear what your saying, but the fact still remains that in just about every time period these fanatics molest the true meaning of religion and manipulate it to their own desire.

"The King was Chosen by God" Was one of the key reasons the English monarchy survived for so long.

Religion is unique in its ability to get people to follow it blindly since faith is such a large part of it. That also makes people susceptable to these fanatics because they use the principle of faith, not hard facts.

I am not blaming Religion itself or any different religion, but in every single time period or era there is always someone who is exploiting religion because of its faith based nature.

I find it amazing how charasmatic fanatics can get people to follow them using the tool of religion.

**

As per Above I wasn't saying that the Catholic church tithed (although some do volentary), but the Morman Church does.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+Sep 21 2004, 11:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ Sep 21 2004, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaramonLS@Sep 22 2004, 03:34 AM
When I hear the Word Religion, the first thing I think of is that the Catholic church in the United states is the largest money making organization in the world.

The Morman Church is right up there with them, has a much smaller following, but they Church is extremely strict on its members Tithing 10% of their earnings.

Its amazing how some of the greatest moral ideas have caused so much harm in the world.

How many people have been blown up in the name of Allah?

How many Knights struck down pagans during the Crusades?

Didn't Joan of Arc claim to be hearing God speak to her?

Some of the principals of religion are great and are a good moral standard for people to follow. But it amazing how much Evil lurks inside Religion and how it has followed it throughout history.

It wasn't until around the 1500s where the Bible was actually converted from Hebrew into a langauge that people could read... until then the English Monarchy/Church just got the citizens to follow like sheep.

I think we're getting carried away with blaming organized religion for acts of violence around the world.

I think its key to seperate fanaticism from religion

How many people have been blown up in the name of Allah?

Is that the act of a religion or the act or fanatics, I'd say the later. Its like blaming the catholic church for abortion clinic bombings. Its not the church its the people that interepret thier religion in thier own way.

How many Knights struck down pagans during the Crusades?

I've always thought that this was a series of knights and thier vassels with nothing to do but hide behind thier religion and find a war. but the crusades are contrary to a church who's main commandment is though shalt not kill.

Didn't Joan of Arc claim to be hearing God speak to her?

According to her, and people chose to believe her because they were too scared or ignorant to not believe her. Joan of Arc was a fanatic.

When I hear the Word Religion, the first thing I think of is that the Catholic church in the United states is the largest money making organization in the world.

I don't believe that the Catholic church collects tithe (sp?) anymore. And you can't really begrudge the church on its fund raising since it does gain the majority of its donations in affluential regions. And its voluntary donations, so its members are being charitable which is one of the tenants of that church [/b][/quote]
Well Mr Crunch its simpler than what you think...

Without Religion...there is nothing for zealots to use to control the masses.
Of course knowing human beings, they would find something else....but would it be worse and would it lead to Wars? Im willing to give it a try, as it appears that the religion/politics mix just does not work...similar to Communism.

The whole idea that Organized religion is beneficial because it provides "fund raising" or benefits for its followers is a lovely thought...but also has as its base the underlying demon of gathering extra sheep to follow whatever wolf is wearing sheeps clothing at that particular moment.
The Catholic Church in its hypocrisy with its net worth in the Billions has more people that we would consider "extremely poor" as members of its flock, practically begging on the street for any morsel of food or clothing for their backs. Why doesnt the church do more for these people? Maybe its called "hope and prayer"? The Catholic Church could do MUCH more than it does with the "tax free" wealth it inherits from its legions, yet chooses to tell these people that they need to use prayer to help them with their fate.
Of course the Catholics arent alone...there are certainly other monsters out there like the Morman myth, gathering tithes, building massive temples and complexes, and not allowing people of color to be amongst their leaders.....or so it seems?

The church is there simply because a large number of people need to be told what to do...they need to follow something...anything...and the thought that they might go on to "heaven" afterwards is seemingly enough.

[Cowperson]

Without Religion...there is nothing for zealots to use to control the masses.

There's always fervent nationalism. As an example, the Basques want a homeland and occasionally blow up things in Spain to make the point.

Some segment of the Quebec population wants to cede from Canada - not a violent movement but it seems rooted in national rather than religious colours.

Cowperson

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Sep 22 2004, 10:28 AM
Without Religion...there is nothing for zealots to use to control the masses.

There's always fervent nationalism. As an example, the Basques want a homeland and occasionally blow up things in Spain to make the point.

Some segment of the Quebec population wants to cede from Canada - not a violent movement but it seems rooted in national rather than religious colours.

Cowperson

Nationalism...another bee in my bonnet<sp?>

With the advent of the Internet we have seen how alike we really are with people from the rest of the world. Is it time to eliminate borders? Without borders would we have the issue of nationalism we see in Quebec or the Basque provinces? Without borders what would happen in Israel? What about language issues? I think its a matter of time before we start to see or hear more about a World without borders.

Yikes I feel like Im on a pulpit here....cmon and join me boys and girls of CP...a new world order...a new way of thinking...we can call our system the Partie de Puck of Calgary?