Conservative Child Care

[Flames-4-ever]

Actually, I think Harper is giving 250 million to creating more daycare workers and spots, as well as the 1200 dollars per parent.
Also this plan of Harpers is going to cost taxpayers about 1.2 billion dollars. The Liberal plan cost about 6 billion dollars (and rising) and no money was going directly to parents, and under 50% of parents were using the program. Harpers plan is definetly as good as its going to get.
You will see the Liberals fight the plan until it does, likely the NDP too.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

See this is the issue that I don't think this policy is going to cover.

I agree that it is nice to be fair and give equal amounts per child to all families, but there are limited Childcare spots and this policy won't directly create any.
The single parents most in need of childcare spots are only getting a little help from this. As many of you mentioned, child care is expensive and this will only offset a small portion of the cost.
I believe additional childcare availability may have helped more of the people who most need the help.

Well they also made 1/4 billion available in tax creadits to make more child care spaces. The unions are ****ed though because they wanted it to be another medicare type deal. Does anyone really want to go down that road again?

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Amen. There is absolutely no reason for you to be forced to fund other people`s kids.

This is just a stupid way to buy voters (young parents). Shouldn`t it be called corruption?

Hallelujiah! I don't drive so I shouldn't be forced to help pave roads I don't use!!


THINK people...

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Hallelujiah! I don't drive so I shouldn't be forced to help pave roads I don't use!!

Correct. Whats so strange about it? I dont fly to Madagascar so I shouldnt be forced to pay for airtickets for those who do. Or should I? How about everyone pays for services/goods he uses up? Hows that?

Originally Posted by White Doors

THINK people...

Amen to that too.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Correct. Whats so strange about it? I dont fly to Madagascar so I shouldnt be forced to pay for airtickets for those who do. Or should I? How about everyone pays for services/goods he uses up? Hows that?

Amen to that too.

..... simply stunning.

as much as i'm against high taxes and the government having a huge role in daily life, some things are necissary. roads for example. i don't care if you don't drive - have you used public transit (those busses drive on the roads too) or walked on the sidewalk? that said, those with cars still do pay more for the roads through gasoline taxes.

as for helping families with childcare - its a good thing. its very expensive and in a lot of families with young'ins its tough to make ends meet. paying the family directly rather than subsidizing daycare is also a step in the right direction - make your own decisions that are right for you. if that money is the difference between letting timmy play on the community soccer team or having him sit on his ass in front of the tv after school every day don't you see that as being a huge benefit to society as a whole? LOL childhood obesity and the huge health problems it creates (ie: large bill for taxpayers for a quadrouple bypass in 10 years).

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

..... simply stunning.

as much as i'm against high taxes and the government having a huge role in daily life, some things are necissary. roads for example. i don't care if you don't drive - have you used public transit (those busses drive on the roads too) or walked on the sidewalk? that said, those with cars still do pay more for the roads through gasoline taxes.

Yes I have and I paid for my ticket. Stunning too, huh? Bus operators should arrange payments and form of payments with (private) road operators. Get a sticker on your windshield, I dont care. I pay for the ticket and I couldnt care less how the bus operator pays for the road. If I pay for bread I dont care how/if/when the baker pays the miller. But dont make me pay for roads I dont use.

As for sidewalks, I see no reason why they cant be privately built/repaired too. Do you?

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

as for helping families with childcare - its a good thing. its very expensive and in a lot of families with young'ins its tough to make ends meet. paying the family directly rather than subsidizing daycare is also a step in the right direction - make your own decisions that are right for you. if that money is the difference between letting timmy play on the community soccer team or having him sit on his ass in front of the tv after school every day don't you see that as being a huge benefit to society as a whole? LOL childhood obesity and the huge health problems it creates (ie: large bill for taxpayers for a quadrouple bypass in 10 years).

Yes it is expensive, when the gov takes a good chunk of your income away, then of course you end up with little money left. Gov takes away money from you and then the gov says "you are too poor to pay for the childcare, we will throw some money your way. BTW remember to vote for us next time." How stupid is that? Leave people alone and they will be able to look after their families themselves. The gov first creates a problem and the it proceeds to "solve" it and creates more problems along the way. Thats not something I will support, sorry.

As for obese kids, why should I care again? But you are right, they will cost shinguardload of money in healthcare. However, I see no reason why should healthcare be socialized either. You are obese? Thats too bad, you (or your insurance provider, if you have one) are going to cover your health care costs. So your argument doesnt fly.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Yes I have and I paid for my ticket. Stunning too, huh? Bus operators should arrange payments and form of payments with (private) road operators. Get a sticker on your windshield, I dont care. I pay for the ticket and I couldnt care less how the bus operator pays for the road. If I pay for bread I dont care how/if/when the baker pays the miller. But dont make me pay for roads I dont use.

As for sidewalks, I see no reason why they cant be privately built/repaired too. Do you?

your ticket only pays for the operation and maintenance of the bus and the driver's salary. if it were to cover roads as well, it would have to be taxed much in the same way gas is taxed to hell.

How in the hell do you think a decent system of sidewalks/paths can be planned, built and maintained by a private company. The property issues alone blow this idea right outta the water (same goes for privitizing the building of roads). That doesn't even cover how a company is goign to fund this project and charge users.

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Yes it is expensive, when the gov takes a good chunk of your income away, then of course you end up with little money left. Gov takes away money from you and then the gov says "you are too poor to pay for the childcare, we will throw some money your way. BTW remember to vote for us next time." How stupid is that? Leave people alone and they will be able to look after their families themselves. The gov first creates a problem and the it proceeds to "solve" it and creates more problems along the way. Thats not something I will support, sorry.

As for obese kids, why should I care again? But you are right, they will cost shinguardload of money in healthcare. However, I see no reason why should healthcare be socialized either. You are obese? Thats too bad, you (or your insurance provider, if you have one) are going to cover your health care costs. So your argument doesnt fly.

and yes, i agree with you, i'd like to have absolutely minimal taxes and have private citizens/companies pay for this. however what you're talking about isn't a simple government policy issue, its a complete tear down and rebuild of our entire government and social structure. basically you can either move or create a seperate thread to discuss this issue and try to get people on your side and lead the revolution to overthrow our culture.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Amen. There is absolutely no reason for you to be forced to fund other people`s kids.

This is just a stupid way to buy voters (young parents). Shouldn`t it be called corruption?

sure . however the original poster you are aggreeing with seems to be worried about giving the 3 million a year guy 3600 bucks. the 3 million a year guy would probably just be as happy holding onto the 1.2 Million in taxes he paid, no?

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

See this is the issue that I don't think this policy is going to cover.

I agree that it is nice to be fair and give equal amounts per child to all families, but there are limited Childcare spots and this policy won't directly create any.
The single parents most in need of childcare spots are only getting a little help from this. As many of you mentioned, child care is expensive and this will only offset a small portion of the cost.
I believe additional childcare availability may have helped more of the people who most need the help.

Single parents in need of help get subsidized for their childcare costs. Unfortunately, the cap for subsidy is not very high. There are childcare spots avaiable, but because of their limited availiability, the cost are running high.

$1,200 will help, no matter what situation you are in. And I'm glad its a sraight cheque. Because if it needed to be directed to a specific childcare facility, there would be more red tape from the governement and the whole process would cost taxpayers much more money.

[White Doors]

^^^ What he said^^^

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Amen. There is absolutely no reason for you to be forced to fund other people`s kids.

This is just a stupid way to buy voters (young parents). Shouldn`t it be called corruption?

Really? So everyone should stop having kids? Gee, where would our society be in 20 years? Probably swapped up by the USA (ugh... shrug!)

[White Doors]

Hey, I'm all for free market and indiciduality and low taxes, but if we, as a society, don't get our birthrate up we are in big trouble. Some issues are more important than your tax bill.

Like I said, some people don't drive, but they subsidize the cost for those that do. And if you don't think that you are subsidizing other people's plane tickets then you are really out to lunch. ie: Nav Canada, your local Airport etc etc..

[Mr. Ski]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Yes I have and I paid for my ticket.......... etc......

I trust then that you've cut a cheque to calpuck equivilet to your 2495 posts then too? So as not to post on other people's dime?

[Sharpen 'Em]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

Let me guess, you are young, childless and not married. You have no idea on life's larger picture yet. Once you see how families and kids and work play together, I think you'll change your mind rather quickly.

Not even close. Married, 32 and planning on having a kid next year. We've been putting it off to ensure that we are financially able to maintain our standard of living as well as bringing a child into the world. Still, I don't think I should be rewarded for having a kid. If I don't feel like I can afford day care on my own then I would like to be able to apply for subsidised day care.

Another thing that no one has brought up is who's to stop a parent from spending the money on himself? Do they have measures put in place?
To be honest, I didn't actually read the entire platform. Maybe there is an answer to this.
There are alot of kids out there are neglected and it would bother me if the money went towards a VLT addiction or something. In most circumstances I hate the idea of government telling me what to do or how to do something but in this case...I don't know. If I'm given cash to spend on my kid it wouldn't bother me to show proof that the money was used for what it was intended for.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

your ticket only pays for the operation and maintenance of the bus and the driver's salary. if it were to cover roads as well, it would have to be taxed much in the same way gas is taxed to hell.

Well, as it should work, price of your ticket should cover all expenses of the bus operator. Again, if you buy groceries in a supermarket, you don’t really care how the supermarket covers building maintenance costs, do you? But you sure as hell aren’t forced to fork up cash for such costs.

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

How in the hell do you think a decent system of sidewalks/paths can be planned, built and maintained by a private company. The property issues alone blow this idea right outta the water (same goes for privitizing the building of roads). That doesn't even cover how a company is goign to fund this project and charge users.

What property issues blow this idea right outta the water? Private highways/roads/streets/etc. were/are built in the past/present.

As for sidewalks, one possibility is that they would be built as "added value" to other buildings, for example like parking lots now - supermarket offers a free parking lot for you. Why - because he wants you in the store. Same way they would be forced to build sidewalks to get you in stores, office buildings, stadiums, restaurants and what not. Residential sidewalks would be built by developers and sold along with the house. That is one example. What’s so strange about it?

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

and yes, i agree with you, i'd like to have absolutely minimal taxes and have private citizens/companies pay for this. however what you're talking about isn't a simple government policy issue, its a complete tear down and rebuild of our entire government and social structure. basically you can either move or create a seperate thread to discuss this issue and try to get people on your side and lead the revolution to overthrow our culture.

Why, I just want to have a simple discussion, I am not making plans for a worldwide revolution.

BTW as for our culture - welfare state has been first put into place by Bismarck in the late 19th century and heavily it was put into place after WWII. I would not call this short period of collectivism our culture which is thousands (2 if you have judeo-christian culture in mind)years old. It’s more of an anomaly.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by looooob

sure . however the original poster you are aggreeing with seems to be worried about giving the 3 million a year guy 3600 bucks. the 3 million a year guy would probably just be as happy holding onto the 1.2 Million in taxes he paid, no?

Yes, but cash give away is not a proper way to cure trouble caused by heavy taxation. It merely causes another problem. Taxation is bad, so is give away. Two bad decisions don’t make one good one. A good decision would be to cut taxation.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

Really? So everyone should stop having kids? Gee, where would our society be in 20 years? Probably swapped up by the USA (ugh... shrug!)

Where did I say that everyone should stop having kids?

[Fire]

Less government involvement the better. Instead of handing money to families they should cut taxes for everyone and have all day care be privately owned. Though I must say this method of helping families is much better then the liberal's method.

[jimmy11]

I agree with this plan, but not overwhelmingly. If Harper is able to create more spaces then I will be more convinced.

One of the resons I hated the Liberal plan is it would benefit primarily upper class parents the most. It did not take into accout parents living in rural communities (who would have to drive hours to get to the federal day cares in the cities), nor did it guarantee shift workers child care who had to work night shifts.

Harpers plan, while certainly not perfect, will atleast benefit everyone equally. And I think thats a good thing.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Well, as it should work, price of your ticket should cover all expenses of the bus operator. Again, if you buy groceries in a supermarket, you don’t really care how the supermarket covers building maintenance costs, do you? But you sure as hell aren’t forced to fork up cash for such costs.



What property issues blow this idea right outta the water? Private highways/roads/streets/etc. were/are built in the past/present.

As for sidewalks, one possibility is that they would be built as "added value" to other buildings, for example like parking lots now - supermarket offers a free parking lot for you. Why - because he wants you in the store. Same way they would be forced to build sidewalks to get you in stores, office buildings, stadiums, restaurants and what not. Residential sidewalks would be built by developers and sold along with the house. That is one example. What’s so strange about it?



Why, I just want to have a simple discussion, I am not making plans for a worldwide revolution.

BTW as for our culture - welfare state has been first put into place by Bismarck in the late 19th century and heavily it was put into place after WWII. I would not call this short period of collectivism our culture which is thousands (2 if you have judeo-christian culture in mind)years old. It’s more of an anomaly.

uuhh The Romans were building roads over 2 thousand years ago...