Moussaoui tells why he hates America....

[White Doors]

"It was a rare person who dared to stand up and make independent decisions about religious belief, made all the more rare by the fact that they were massacred as fast as possible."

Like martin Luther perhaps? What did he stand against? Do you even know? Do you have a clue? Shall you copy and paste some humanism quotes to explain that one too?

I await with baited breath.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by White Doors

So do you people stand up and congratulate China, a 'humansit' state for taking over the dreadful people of Tinbt who happened to be religious in state and stature? Is that ok?

Modern day 'humanists' remind me of midievil-day missionaries.

Again you speak thru an orifice better known to release human waste.
Why dont you link us something more than your diatribe?

You need to go back through the last 10 threads on this topic because its been covered quite a few times. You have no clue what a Humanist is, and IF you believe that Religion has done more good than bad over history you need to seriously begin reading literature...and I dont mean Dr Seuss.

[White Doors]

Cheese, your own doctrinal belief in what you espouse, already exposes you as a modern day humanist missionary. You belittle and bemoan those that think otherwise. Ironically, you are all that you aim not to be, a zealot - albeit not a religious one.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Cheese, your own doctrinal belief in what you espouse, already exposes you as a modern day humanist missionary. You belittle and bemoan those that think otherwise. Ironically, you are all that you aim not to be, a zealot - albeit not a religious one.

LOL...says you. You are the one attacking without any basis for your attacks. Why dont you come up with some facts? You just drive by and blab on and on about nothing.
I or other Humanists dont kill anyone, and we certainly dont espouse anyone of our ilk to go out en masse and blow up innocent people. What a silly silly comment.
IF you allow those of Christendom to have TV shows, Radio programs, newscasts, etc etc then why cant the same happen for Humanists? Who if NOT the Humanists will stop the craziness? You? LOLOL

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Originally Posted by HOZ

He is insane. He is looking to get hanged.....this whole over the top "blathering" is his way of reaching dream. Becoming a matyr.

Now I'm not a fan of the death penalty but I think that not giving him marytrdom is the way to go. Sentence him to a few hundred years in jail, and let him hang out with the guys from Oz for a while.

[Azure]

What an asinine statement! So if reigion were not in the human consciousness, we's all be living in some sort of paradise? This train of thought is both dangerous and terribly niave. If we all think that humans are naturally 'good' and all thr problems in human history are attribuntal to that fact, then we truly haven't learned from our history are are thus doomed to repeat it with some sort of other creed or doctine that will be just as bad or not worse.

History has taught us that millions of people have been killed in the name of religion. You have to be pretty ignorant to not believe that. People have always used religion in order to promote their agenda, always been that way and will always stay that way. Does that mean every religious person is like that? Certainly not; I know many religious people that are great friends and all, but it still does not take away from all the problems throughout the world right now, all created by the name of religion.

So Stalin wasn't a 'true communist' because he grew up in a religious household?? WTF are you people on? Humans WILL ALWAYS have conflicts and at the end of the day, any sane person can realize that religion has done more good than bad in human history.

Stalin wasn't a true communist because he never had the Soviet Union set up in a true form of communism. If you had any clue what communism is, how Karl Marx wanted it to function you would understand that no leader has ever come close to being a true communist.

Communism also calls religion the "opium of the masses" something Stalin obviously never believed.

This coming from a person who is NOT religious. The time has come to truly recognize the limitations of human progress and that blame lies with HUMANS. No one else.

Sure. But it still does NOT take away from the fact that religion has caused problems. Many, many, many problems. I am religious and can say that; Cheese is not religious based on that reason(problems and all). I think.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by Cheese

You have no clue what a Humanist is, and IF you believe that Religion has done more good than bad over history you need to seriously begin reading literature...and I dont mean Dr Seuss.

How does one go about recording the 'good' and 'bad' that religion has been a part of? Is it even possible?

I know that churches, temples and mosques and the people behind them have done immeasurable good deeds in history. I would argue that more good has come from religion than bad, it's just that the bad stuff is higher profile.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

How does one go about recording the 'good' and 'bad' that religion has been a part of? Is it even possible?

I know that churches, temples and mosques and the people behind them have done immeasurable good deeds in history. I would argue that more good has come from religion than bad, it's just that the bad stuff is higher profile.

Exactly. To USE religion as a scape goat to blame all of humanites evils on is juvenile and shows a shocking lack of judgement and knowledge of history in my opinion.

Many many more people have been killed because of race, creed and nationalism. If one is to rail against religion, it is disingenious not to also condemn these issues.
At the end of the day, it is humanity's failings that have caused these, not those SOLELY of religion. To believe that the evils in the world are ALL caused by religion, like our uninformed postrer above did, is such a farce.

Like I said, I'm not even religious, I just find it really strange that religion is seemingly the only thing it is ok to not be 'PC' about.

[White Doors]

"Stalin wasn't a true communist because he never had the Soviet Union set up in a true form of communism. If you had any clue what communism is, how Karl Marx wanted it to function you would understand that no leader has ever come close to being a true communist"

Wouldn't most muslim's argue that Osama is not a real Muslim? My god. The ignorance is astounding!

Can't wait until the next attempt at recreating 'REAL' communism is. Hopefully it doesn't cost 40 million lives like the last 'attempts' did.

HATE is the root of all evil and some here sure sound like they really HATE religion.

[Azure]

White Doors, it still does not take away from the fact that Osama is using the name of religion to further his agenda. I do not "hate" religion, I just know that it has caused many, many problems throughout the past.

Something that is brought to mind by the original point of this thread.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Exactly. To USE religion as a scape goat to blame all of humanites evils on is juvenile and shows a shocking lack of judgement and knowledge of history in my opinion.

Many many more people have been killed because of race, creed and nationalism. If one is to rail against religion, it is disingenious not to also condemn these issues.
At the end of the day, it is humanity's failings that have caused these, not those SOLELY of religion. To believe that the evils in the world are ALL caused by religion, like our uninformed postrer above did, is such a farce.

Like I said, I'm not even religious, I just find it really strange that religion is seemingly the only thing it is ok to not be 'PC' about.

Did we say ALL wars are started by Religion? The vast majority of wars have religious conotations and have at their root religious strife.
The fact that religions do good things is a moot point. People would do good WITHOUT religion as a base. Case in point, and this is a leap of faith...IF using your theory their was a group of people that were child molestors behind closed doors and everyone knew it, however by doing anything about it the world would lose millions or billions of dollars in aid.
How would you feel about that group? Would it be ok to let them be, simply because they did some good as well? Maybe it was part of the plan in the first place...a smoke screen per se? Is it a reach?
Using your theory it isnt.

A group of world religious leaders from the Buddhist, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian, Jewish, Muslim and many other faiths met in Geneva Switzerland during 1999-OCT. They issued a document, The Geneva Spiritual Appeal, asking political and religious leaders and organizations to ensure that religions are not used to justify violence in the future. Delegates believed that that then-current 56 conflicts have religious elements.

Religiously based intolerance

Based on this EVEN world religious leaders know the facts that you want us to ignore.

Yes there have been wars started by madmen....wars that are not based on religion...and in most of those cases the person, people, country or whatever it was was stopped and defeated. They werent given a second chance or a third chance or a 1000th chance to do it again.

So what exactly is your point?

By the way...Im of Ukranian decent and know a fair bit about Russian history...are you sure you want to get into the whole Stalin deal? I doubt it.

[Cheese]

Moussaoui will spend rest of life in solitary


A martyr is not created.....a good move by the USA.

Life in Solitary Confinement
Moussaoui was expected to be sent as early as Thursday to the super maximum security federal prison in Florence, Colorado known as the "Alcatraz of the Rockies."
If so, he will spend 23 hours a day in solitary confinement, in a 7-by-12 foot (3.5-by-2 meter) soundproofed cell. The remaining hour he will have the chance to exercise, also alone, in a concrete chamber.

Also liked this part..(I wonder what their thoughts would be if this guy had murdered one of their family members?)

Human-rights activists say this kind of long-term segregation takes a harsh toll on prisoners' mental health and many of them eventually suffer from problems, including depression, paranoia, hallucinations and anxiety.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by White Doors

What an asinine statement! So if reigion were not in the human consciousness, we's all be living in some sort of paradise? This train of thought is both dangerous and terribly niave. If we all think that humans are naturally 'good' and all thr problems in human history are attribuntal to that fact, then we truly haven't learned from our history are are thus doomed to repeat it with some sort of other creed or doctine that will be just as bad or not worse.

So Stalin wasn't a 'true communist' because he grew up in a religious household?? WTF are you people on? Humans WILL ALWAYS have conflicts and at the end of the day, any sane person can realize that religion has done more good than bad in human history.

This coming from a person who is NOT religious. The time has come to truly recognize the limitations of human progress and that blame lies with HUMANS. No one else.

In all your ranting you fail to recognize the fact that if people were not "taught" to be religious, it simply wouldn't exist. It is a learned behaviour. Or a brainwashing technique.....

[White Doors]

And what you lost is that all I was implying is that religion is in fact, NOT, the root of all evil.

[White Doors]

"if people were not "taught" to hate, it simply wouldn't exist. It is a learned behaviour. Or a brainwashing technique....."

Fixed

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by White Doors

"if people were not "taught" to hate, it simply wouldn't exist. It is a learned behaviour. Or a brainwashing technique....."

Fixed

yep. The problem is religions do teach their people to hate....or to believe their version is better than the others.
Catholics vs Protestants, Jews vs...., Muslims vs all the rest....

I dont know of many non religious people who outwardly try to rear their children to hate anyone.

[Cowperson]

At Al-Jazeera.net right now, a Muslim scholar with his opinion:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...BC405A8B9F.htm

Cowperson

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Calgary Flames

Religion is the root of all evil.

I don't agree with you very often Jordon, but you hit the nail on the head there. Bravo, young man!

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Cheese

yep. The problem is religions do teach their people to hate....or to believe their version is better than the others.
Catholics vs Protestants, Jews vs...., Muslims vs all the rest....

That's just bloody ignorant and you know it.
Yes there are people who will twist religion to preach hate, and yes in the past the religions have done some horrible things (ie the crusades), but the basic tennants of most religions is not hate. Ever hear of the golden rule? You know pretty much the most basic idea that christianity is founded on?

Damn man, I don't know why you have such a hate for all religions, but you come on here spewing bile like nobody's business and expect us to believe that you are better than someone who preaches hate based on religion? Faith can give people comfort, hope, and a purpose and it seems that your goal is to take that away. Religion is not the problem, it is people's abuse of it that has caused problems, and this is something that pretty much all religions preach against.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

That's just bloody ignorant and you know it.
Yes there are people who will twist religion to preach hate, and yes in the past the religions have done some horrible things (ie the crusades), but the basic tennants of most religions is not hate. Ever hear of the golden rule? You know pretty much the most basic idea that christianity is founded on?

Damn man, I don't know why you have such a hate for all religions, but you come on here spewing bile like nobody's business and expect us to believe that you are better than someone who preaches hate based on religion? Faith can give people comfort, hope, and a purpose and it seems that your goal is to take that away. Religion is not the problem, it is people's abuse of it that has caused problems, and this is something that pretty much all religions preach against.

Give it up Shantz. The only thing you can do is try to attack me. You must be confused backing up the Fundamentalists all the while suggesting that you arent a religious person yourself. Why dont you pick a side, join them, then make a real commitment? I havent spewed anything, I have simply stated the FACTS. Fundamentalists within ALL religions have created problems since religion was created. I have posted link after link after link proving my point and you call me names? I even went so far as to post a link about a religious conference that agreed that religions need to stay OUT of wars and conflicts.
If you have a problem with me thats fine...but dont go wading into a pool of Sharks when you have your period.