Basement finishing

[Indi]

No cold air return in a bedroom? you had better cut the bottom of the door to allow a gap.....the main reason for a cold air return is to keep the air pressure in the room at a balanced point. Without any cold air return, the pressure in the room will increase (millibars), which will decrease the amount of the furnace flow....I find it hard to believe your builder didnt put a cold air return in a bedroom. If you read the pamphlet from the city of calgary re: basement developments, it states that finished rooms must have a cold air return at ground level. When the inspector came to my place to check the rough in, he said it is rarely followed and never enforced. Also, a bathroom is not considered a finished room, and neither is a den or office.....just bedrooms and family room. Doesnt say anything about heat ducts...but that goes without saying. Some houses are heated with infloor heating, or hot water systems, so saying that all developments have to have return ducts are somewhat misleading

[V]

Cat 5e?? They still sell that stuff? I haven't designed or installed anything but Cat 6 in a while now.

If you're planning on putting laminate or something similar in the basement, look at getting some heat tracing on the floor. Warms the floor up real nice.

Bourgeois, what do you mean by nothing can be more than 6 feet from a receptacle? You don't mean data/cable/etc, do you? I think what the rule's getting at is that an appliance can't have more than 6 feet of cord to get to the outlet. This is why you'll usually see outlets 12 feet apart. Keep in mind it's also against code to install a receptacle within 3 feet of a door. I'm not sure what that's all about.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

Cat 5e?? They still sell that stuff? I haven't designed or installed anything but Cat 6 in a while now.

Where do you buy your Cat6? How much does it cost?

[V]

I couldn't tell you what it costs. I get it directly from the suppliers as "samples". I would think you could pick it up at EECOL Electric, or some such company.

Same as the termination tool that fotze was talking about. Gotta love "samples"!

Cat 6 is just a much better wire, and as performance requirements and information flowrate increases, Cat 5e will become more and more obsolete.

Belden has this new wire called "10 GigX" (or something, can't quite remember) and that'll be taking over Cat 6 soon enough, I think.

Someone above mentioned fire rated cable. I don't see how that would be necessary. Just an added unnecessary cost, unless you're wiring for your fire alarm, or an area that must be kept intact for as long as possible during a fire. Your average computer or theatre doesn't fall under that scenario, I wouldn't think, unless you really, really wanted to finish reading all the CP threads before running away from the fire.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

Bourgeois, what do you mean by nothing can be more than 6 feet from a receptacle? You don't mean data/cable/etc, do you? I think what the rule's getting at is that an appliance can't have more than 6 feet of cord to get to the outlet. This is why you'll usually see outlets 12 feet apart. Keep in mind it's also against code to install a receptacle within 3 feet of a door. I'm not sure what that's all about.

The rule actually states:

Install duplex receptacles in the walls of every finished room or area so that no point along the floor line of any usable wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 feet) horizontally from a receptacle. The usable wall space includes a wall space of 900 mm (3 feet) or more in width but doesn’t include doorways, windows that extend to the floor, fireplaces or other permanent installations that would limit the use of the wall space.

I screwed up on the 6ft part so I have a couple extra receptacles. Though I don't remember seeing the 3ft rule you spoke of. And in fact I have outlets less than 3 ft from a doorway - that passed inspection.

[V]

3 feet from a doorway? Or an opening? Doesn't matter, could be an old rule that doesn't apply anymore, or could've been a guideline that was never enforced. All I know is that we'll never design an outlet in that area. Of course, I didn't specify this, but that's 3 feet from the doorway where the door opens towards the wall, for example, you don't put the receptacle behind the door if the door is open.

Where'd you pull that rule from? CEC? NEC? What section? I googled it, but couldn't find the exact location in the code. I'm just curious, because this doesn't apply whatsoever in commercial design, as there are plenty of corridors where there'll only be one outlet every 20 feet or more, just for housekeeping purposes. Even in offices, it's pretty common to only put two receptacles in that office, one where the computer is expected to be, and one on the opposite wall. There's definately more than 12 feet between them.

Or maybe I'm just a really bad designer. That's probably closer to the truth.

[V]

Never mind, found it. CEC 210.52(A)(1)

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by photon

You're sure that code dictates a cold air return in every room? Because one of our bedrooms in our newly built house doesn't have one. And that room does get colder at night than the rest (makes sense). We haven't talked to the builder about it much yet as we're just getting to our three month repair stuff now.

You've gotta get that checked out.

If you read the pamphlet from the city of calgary re: basement developments, it states that finished rooms must have a cold air return at ground level. When the inspector came to my place to check the rough in, he said it is rarely followed and never enforced.

Yeah, putting in a cold air return in the basement at ground level is a huge PITA. But if he wants a really comfortable basement, he should follow code, as that code is there to provide a comfort space for the residents.

Also, a bathroom is not considered a finished room, and neither is a den or office.....just bedrooms and family room.

Bathrooms should have an external vent. Again, I don't think it's required but it certainly makes the room more comfortable. Most dens I've seen have cold air returns, even if code doesn't require it.

Some houses are heated with infloor heating, or hot water systems, so saying that all developments have to have return ducts are somewhat misleading

If you're looking for comfort, you have to have to cold air returns, no matter what the heating system. And in Calgary, there's no way in-floor heating would provide enough heat to warm a room.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

Someone above mentioned fire rated cable. I don't see how that would be necessary. Just an added unnecessary cost, unless you're wiring for your fire alarm, or an area that must be kept intact for as long as possible during a fire.

I was under the impression that it was code; and the reason being was to prevent the fire from spreading along the wire, and also to reduce the toxic smoke.

I could be wrong, but that's what I had heard, and when I did my wiring decided to err on the side of caution.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by photon

Yup, that too.

Oh and I found some info about the foam insulation:

http://www.cufca.ca/

My living room has a small cantilevered part past the foundation, and the furnace duct for the front room goes into it then up underneath te fron window. After living there for a couple of years, I figured out that my livingroom is so cold because the builder didn't put any insulation in there - the floor in that spot is cold, and when the furnace kicks in the air is cold and only starts warming when the furnace finally stops.

My wife called one of these places, and they said they wouldn't pull the trucks out of the garage for less than $650. The area I want done is maybe 10 cu ft. I don't blame them, I just wish there was a small scale solution.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

My wife called one of these places, and they said they wouldn't pull the trucks out of the garage for less than $650. The area I want done is maybe 10 cu ft. I don't blame them, I just wish there was a small scale solution.

I got quotes for that exact type of area and size as well. They ranged from $150-$350, so you may want to phone some other places.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I think you can rent small machines for that at home depot.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I saw one there this weekend.

[V]

As far as I know, and I could easily be wrong, the idea behind most plenum rated cables is to provide some time before the fire burns through the cable, thus providing your systems an extra bit of time to continue working. Very important for fire alarm systems and the like.

As far as standards go for data cabling in commercial building, if a building is combustible (wood framed) you don't need to protect your cables in any way. They get strung through the ceiling space using hooks, and no conduit is needed even behind the walls. In a non-combustible building all of your data cabling must be in cable tray and conduit throughout the ceiling and behind walls. I would imagine the same sort of rules would apply for residential buildings.

[Shazam]

There doesn't seem to be anything in the City of Calgary's electrical basement development guide about fire-resistant/proof wiring.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Shazam

And in Calgary, there's no way in-floor heating would provide enough heat to warm a room.

I've been in several homes in Calgary with radiant in-floor heating systems. They were quite comfortable.

[ken0042]

But was in floor heat the only heat source in the home?

I think that's what he was getting at; that you need another method in addition to in floor heat; unlike say Central California where in floor heat might be the only source of heat.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Reaper

I've been in several homes in Calgary with radiant in-floor heating systems. They were quite comfortable.

I seriously doubt that was the only heat source in the house.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I think you can rent small machines for that at home depot.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I saw one there this weekend.

I asked them, and they said they have the machine but it requires a specific type of insulation they can't keep it in stock, and the next shipment isn't expected for a couple months.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I seriously doubt that was the only heat source in the house.

I don't see how this is so hard to believe. Radiant in-floor heating systems (of the hydronic type) can work well even in Calgary. It's not like we're living in Inuvik.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I asked them, and they said they have the machine but it requires a specific type of insulation they can't keep it in stock, and the next shipment isn't expected for a couple months.

Hmmm, maybe try another one.
The new one on the very north end of Sarcee by the landfill had one on display and I would imagine they woudn't be displaying the thing if they didn't have the insulation to go with it.
Hopefully it was just that one store you were at and you can save some dough.