most overrated nfl players

[Displaced Flames fan]

I love Urlacher, but....

Derrick Brooks, Ray Lewis and Al Wilson are as good or better. There is no separation there.

As for Owens, I can think of some WR's I feel are more valuable than him on the field....

Marvin Harrison, Tory Holt, Hines Ward

Those 3 are better than Owens.

Then there's a group that are right with him in terms of on the field value....

Rod Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Chad Johnson, Jimmy Smith, Steve Smith

As I said, he's never been the best WR in the league at any time in his career, but his mouth gets him enough press that many, many people think he is.

You might notice the common thread in the three I have above him...none of them are talkers. They are all better football players though...and that's not even factoring in their superior attitudes.

[NigNewton]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I love Urlacher, but....

Derrick Brooks, Ray Lewis and Al Wilson are as good or better. There is no separation there.

As for Owens, I can think of some WR's I feel are more valuable than him on the field....

Marvin Harrison, Tory Holt, Hines Ward

Those 3 are better than Owens.

Then there's a group that are right with him in terms of on the field value....

Rod Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Chad Johnson, Jimmy Smith, Steve Smith

As I said, he's never been the best WR in the league at any time in his career, but his mouth gets him enough press that many, many people think he is.

You might notice the common thread in the three I have above him...none of them are talkers. They are all better football players though...and that's not even factoring in their superior attitudes.

I have to disagree with you. Holt I will agree is on par with Owens, but not in a totally separate class as you seem to be implying. Harrison and Ward I would rank below Owens.

I love the Steelers and I love Hines Ward, but he has never shown to have the ability of Owens. Better hands, maybe. Not for sure, but maybe. He doesn't have the speed or athleticism of T.O. When Owens is playing, if you don't double him he WILL burn you. Ward, not so much.

Marvin Harrison I will admit I haven't watched play as much as the other guys mentioned. However, when I do watch him, he just seems to have inflated numbers due to working with Peyton Manning. I feel the exact same about Reggie Wayne. They are better than average receivers who are made to look elite (similar to Brooks and Freeman in Favre's prime).

What I REALLY don't understand is how you put Steve Smith below those guys. To me, he is the best WR in the game, period. (Yes, better than Owens or Holt. both of whom I feel are also top 3.) To do what he has done with a decent but unspectacular QB in Delhomme is amazing, especially since they lost Mohammed and he became the only guy on the team who can catch a ball. The guy won the receiving triple crown last season!

[Displaced Flames fan]

Smith hasn't done it as long as the other 3, that's why I have him lower.

Personally, I think Harrison makes Manning look better than he really is. He is always open and he always catches the ball. He's not as dynamic as T.O., but he plays smarter and he has better hands.

Holt is faster and has all the athleticism that T.O. has.

I would take Hines Ward over T.O. every day of the week. Better hands, better route runner, better without the ball. Not quite as fast, but speed ain't everything.

If Steve Smith continues to perform like he did this year he'll move up my list. Great player. Big mouth, but backs it up...kinda like Chad Johnson who I think is arguable as good as Owens too.

I'd have Rod Smith up with those top 3 as well, but I'd get called a homer and he's 35 years old. Still getting it done though. Great route runner, and exceptional blocker. Something else that Ward destroys Owens at.

[Pagal4321]

Steve Smith is better then Holt & Harrison???
Oh wow, do I ever disagree with you. Smith is a great WR, don't get me wrong, but consistancy is one of the biggest factors is calling a WR great. Until Smith shows he can put up huge numbers year after year, he is in a category below guys like Holt and Harrison.
Smith proved he can be a game breaker this year, but also showed he has a temper to him, that leads me to beleive he may turn into a big mouth receiver next year.

[flames_1987]

I think Wayne defintley looks a lot better with Peyton throwing him the ball. As for Marvin, he's just an amazing receiver. First off the guy has about zero attitutde, you never see him showing off after a TD, he's just mr. classy. The catches he's made are just sick, he has to be one of the best WR's of all time at being able to understand where he is on the field and keep his feet inbounds.

Steve Smith had one hell of a year. No doubt, but long term he's not in the elite group of WR's. In a few years if he can keep up the pace he had this year, Santana Moss may be among the best in the league.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

I think Wayne defintley looks a lot better with Peyton throwing him the ball. As for Marvin, he's just an amazing receiver. First off the guy has about zero attitutde, you never see him showing off after a TD, he's just mr. classy. The catches he's made are just sick, he has to be one of the best WR's of all time at being able to understand where he is on the field and keep his feet inbounds.

Steve Smith had one hell of a year. No doubt, but long term he's not in the elite group of WR's. In a few years if he can keep up the pace he had this year, Santana Moss may be among the best in the league.

Agreed about Harrison. He's the Steve Largent of today's NFL. Quietly supreme.

[RedMan12]

Jarome Iginla...

Opps this is NFL not NHL. Rnady Moss, I am a Raiders fan he did not have a good first season with the Silver and Black.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by InSutterWeTrust

Heres a couple more

Chad Pennington
Stephen Davis
Byron Leftwich

Stephen Davis is well past his prime. Pennington was great, when he wasn't hurt. Leftwich is tough as nails and I love watching him play, because he has no quit in him. But he isn't an elite player.

[Lurch]

My list:

1. Any Denver running back. Great O-line makes those guys seem like world beaters till they leave. Portis may be the exception.
2. Brett Favre. Love him, but he makes terrible decisions, has questionable accuracy and is consistently talked about like he is one of the top 5 of all time. In all honesty, if you switch the environment Brett and Jake Plummer developed under, I think people would talk about Favre in the same way they talk about Plummer (another guy I love despite his faults). Note: both are among my very favorite players in the league b/c I love the attitude they play with - nonetheless, overrated.
3. Emmit Smith - I know he's done now, but he really reminds me of the Mike Gartner of the football world. How does being consistently above average (behind the best o-line in football no less) for a long time translate into being regarded as one of the best of all-time?
4. Orlando Pace - I'm a big Rams fan, but this guy simply is not one of the top 2 or 3 tackles in the league, as much as he and every announcer seems to suggest. Much the same as Jonathon Ogden - being huge is not the same as being good.
5. Vick: truly a terrible quarterback. Maybe he'll put it together someday, maybe not. Till then, he's terrible.
6. Mannings (both): sacred cow for many. If I was starting a team from scratch, Peyton is nowhere near the clear-cut starter even, despite his all-world status. Eli for now has a big name and sometimes big numbers, but horrible accuracy that kills a lot of drives for a good Giants team.

[transplant99]

2. Brett Favre.

Yep.....3 time league MVP's are always over rated.

Got it.

[Flames_18_22_12]

Originally Posted by Lurch

My list:

3. Emmitt Smith - I know he's done now, but he really reminds me of the Mike Gartner of the football world. How does being consistently above average (behind the best o-line in football no less) for a long time translate into being regarded as one of the best of all-time?

No way Smith is over-rated... For most of his career he was significantly over average, and was a touchdown machine. Irvin is now being left out of the hall of fame because his QB, RB and O-line were so great, Emmitt is being bashed (here) because his o-line and qb were so good, and their o-line is not getting the credit they deserve because Emmitt and Aikman were so good... so where does it end? Emmitt Smith was a fantastic, durable back. It was far from being "just because of the o-line", he had skill.

[NigNewton]

Originally Posted by Lurch

My list:

1. Any Denver running back. Great O-line makes those guys seem like world beaters till they leave. Portis may be the exception.
2. Brett Favre. Love him, but he makes terrible decisions, has questionable accuracy and is consistently talked about like he is one of the top 5 of all time. In all honesty, if you switch the environment Brett and Jake Plummer developed under, I think people would talk about Favre in the same way they talk about Plummer (another guy I love despite his faults). Note: both are among my very favorite players in the league b/c I love the attitude they play with - nonetheless, overrated.
3. Emmit Smith - I know he's done now, but he really reminds me of the Mike Gartner of the football world. How does being consistently above average (behind the best o-line in football no less) for a long time translate into being regarded as one of the best of all-time?
4. Orlando Pace - I'm a big Rams fan, but this guy simply is not one of the top 2 or 3 tackles in the league, as much as he and every announcer seems to suggest. Much the same as Jonathon Ogden - being huge is not the same as being good.
5. Vick: truly a terrible quarterback. Maybe he'll put it together someday, maybe not. Till then, he's terrible.
6. Mannings (both): sacred cow for many. If I was starting a team from scratch, Peyton is nowhere near the clear-cut starter even, despite his all-world status. Eli for now has a big name and sometimes big numbers, but horrible accuracy that kills a lot of drives for a good Giants team.

Yeah I have to disagree. As much as hearing TO's name in this thread irritated me, hearing Brett Favre and Emmitt Smith is BLASPHEMY!

Favre isn't as good as he once was, but he's what 36? And his entire team was DECIMATED by injuries this past year. They had no offensive line (granted that wasn't really due to injuries), got down to their 6th string running back, and had one NFL-calibre wide receiver in Donald Driver. And when I say NFL-calbre I use that term loosely. He deserves every compliment he has ever recieved.

[Ch40s]

All of them

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Lurch

My list:

1. Any Denver running back. Great O-line makes those guys seem like world beaters till they leave. Portis may be the exception.
.

Question...who overrates them? Droughns had a great year in Cleveland and just signed a 3 year extension. But overrated? I don't hear him mentioned among the better backs in the league...ever.

Oh, and Terrell Davis is not overrated and his place in history is secure. The best Denver RB ever and that includes Portis...who, frankly, has shown his numbers in Denver were inflated. Davis SHOULD be a HOFer at some point.

I guess the point is that don't you actually have to be overrated to BE overrated?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Lurch

2. Brett Favre. Love him, but he makes terrible decisions, has questionable accuracy and is consistently talked about like he is one of the top 5 of all time. In all honesty, if you switch the environment Brett and Jake Plummer developed under, I think people would talk about Favre in the same way they talk about Plummer (another guy I love despite his faults). Note: both are among my very favorite players in the league b/c I love the attitude they play with - nonetheless, overrated.
.

The attitude they play with...and I'll throw Elway into this as well as he played the same way Brett plays is exactly why you think they make poor decisions. They are always trying to make something happen. This year was a perfect example of that. Favre had NOTHING to work with so he put it all on himself and tried to make plays. In his mind, it's better to go down fighting than 3 and out all day until you lose.

Guys who are willing to take risks to make big plays (provided they have the talent to do it...like Favre and Elway do) will always be greater players to me than the ones who had stars all around them their entire careers and never had to put a team on their back and will them to win (ala Montana and Aikman).

I'll take Elway and Favre as #1 and #2 all time.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by Lurch

:
6. Mannings (both): sacred cow for many. If I was starting a team from scratch, Peyton is nowhere near the clear-cut starter even, despite his all-world status. Eli for now has a big name and sometimes big numbers, but horrible accuracy that kills a lot of drives for a good Giants team.

I don't see how Eli can be overrated. I don't hear many people out there throwing his name around like he's an all-pro QB. He just played his first full year as a starter and with a Giants team that really wasen't suppose to do much he led them to the playoffs. Of course he still has some flaws in his game, It's hard to find a QB playing his first year as a starter that doesen't.

[Lurch]

Yep.....3 time league MVP's are always over rated.

Got it.

Do you understand "overrated"? My understanding is players that do not help their team as much as is generally thought is overrated. Is your point MVP's cannot be overrated? Kurt Warner won how many MVP's - 2 I believe. Does that make him one of the greatest of all time as well. Is he or was he overrated?

I'll take Elway and Favre as #1 and #2 all time.

I probably would as well if we were saying "who are your 2 favorites of all time". I think guys like Montana and Brady don't get enough credit b/c they are coolly efficient, whereas Favre gets too much b/c he tries a throw that works maybe once in ten instead of taking the smart play. For me, Favre is consistently overrated b/c of his style - people love him for good reason, but he has singlehandedly cost his teams as many games as he has singlehandedly won. Really, it's a counterpoint reason to why I would say TO is underrated - people justifiably hate him, which clouds the issue of what he does on the field (though TO may actually be destructive enough to a locker room that this is a moot point. Wasn't the case until about 2 or 3 years ago though). Who do you like is not the same as who is overrated - in fact, there is probably a correlation: the bigger the fan favorite, the more likely to be overrated.

Oh, and Terrell Davis is not overrated and his place in history is secure. The best Denver RB ever and that includes Portis...who, frankly, has shown his numbers in Denver were inflated. Davis SHOULD be a HOFer at some point.

I guess the point is that don't you actually have to be overrated to BE overrated?

Davis had what, 3 or 4 big years? Is Jamal Lewis HOF material as well based on having a 2,000 yard season and helping a team win a Super Bowl. Lewis will probably surpass Davis this year in career yards, and their yards per carry are very similar (4.6 versus 4.4). Add in the fact that Lewis plays on a team where he is the sole source of offence, and you have an argument (ignoring the character issue Lewis clearly has). IMO, Davis was good, but hardly HOF material.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Good point on Davis. That was the homer Bronco fan in me talking I guess. Still maintain that he was better than Portis was/is though. The homer Bronco fan has no part in the comments below however...

I don't like the Brady/Montana comparison though. Brady, despite what some Pats fans might say, hasn't had near the talent around him that Montana did. I think Brady is underrated if anything. I think Montana is severely overrated as a passer. As a QB/leader, he's not.

Getting back to Favre and Elway, I'm not sure if you were lumping Elway in with Favre on your 10% chance of success thing, but if you were, you must also realize that no Qb in NFL history has won more games than John Elway. Much of his career he had nothing around him. It was only in the last 4 years or so that he actually had some talent on offense. He single handedly got them to the Super Bowl 3 times (with the help of an undersized but gritty defense). I can tell you for a fact had he not had the balls to make some of the throws he did (i.e. make the smart play instead) in the championship games against Cleveland (both of them) the Browns would've been in the Super Bowl twice. Elway made throws no other QB could make and he did it in less than ideal conditions.

Personally, I think Favre is a step below Elway in talent, but he has won a hell of a lot of games and he's never had a great supporting cast on offense.

You can't penalize guys like Montana and Aikman for what they had around them, but Elway and Favre both proved to be exceptional QB's by winning without that talent.

[Lurch]

Getting back to Favre and Elway, I'm not sure if you were lumping Elway in with Favre on your 10% chance of success thing, but if you were, you must also realize that no Qb in NFL history has won more games than John Elway. Much of his career he had nothing around him. It was only in the last 4 years or so that he actually had some talent on offense. He single handedly got them to the Super Bowl 3 times (with the help of an undersized but gritty defense). I can tell you for a fact had he not had the balls to make some of the throws he did (i.e. make the smart play instead) in the championship games against Cleveland (both of them) the Browns would've been in the Super Bowl twice. Elway made throws no other QB could make and he did it in less than ideal conditions.

Nope, I do not think Elway is or was overrated. I'm not too sure I agree with you that he had nothing around him in his early years, but that's not really important. I also think you are underestimating the talent Green Bay had in the mid to late 90's when Favre was at his peak. I think the key difference between the two guys is that I can point to numerous playoff games Favre singlehandedly lost the game, whereas I'm not sure if Elway crapped the bed for the Broncos too many times (they were badly overmatched in the Super Bowl losses).

On Brady, I also agree. Patriots have mediocre talent on offense at best, especially before they got Dillon, and Brady managed to make that team great. I'm personally not a fan of Captain America, but I don't think any quarterback in the league has accomplished as much with as little.

Kind of related to the Terrell Davis point - where do you see Priest Holmes now that his career is probably done (from a #1 back perspective at the minimum). Personally, I think he's marginally ahead of Davis in terms of where he fits in the line-up to get into the HOF, but not sure I'd put him in either.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Holmes may not be done yet. We'll see.

I'd agree. He's more dynamic than Davis was. More of a threat in the passing game, but I think Davis was a more dangerous runner.

I'll say this about Holmes...and Davis....class acts both of them. I'm obviously not a Chiefs fan, but I live in Chiefs country now and have heard numerous interviews with Priest Holmes. He's a gentleman and he's a guy I could see winding up in the coaching ranks in some capacity. Davis is just a gem of person as well.