Green Party Successes in 2006

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

Sure...vote for a party that ran as candidates a bunch of 20-something philosophy & social work majors with their pie-in-the-sky vision of how this country could be so much greener and everyone would be dancing together singing folk songs on a canyon, that's gonna help keeping your hard earned money in your pockets This party's got a more unrealistic platform than the worst Layton has to offer, if that's even possible.

Sure... vote for your party that ran as candidates a bunch of high-school dropout bigoted homophobes that think the Earth is 8,000 years old. Much better.

[Flame On]

Incinerators girlfriend is 300 lbs. and says dark-sided a lot. Which may give some indication.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

What do you know about their platform? Anything specific to bring to the table, or was this just a drive-by?

It IS a drive-by, just to see the left-wing-nuts on this board getting their panties in a knot, looks likes it's working so far, you guys bought it hook, line, and sinker, 4 posts already

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

It IS a drive-by, just to see the left-wing-nuts on this board getting their panties in a knot, looks likes it's working so far, you guys bought it hook, line, and sinker, 4 posts already

You're proud about bringing nothing to the table? Proud of having nothing to debate?

Shouldn't you be at HF?

We both know it wasn't to get us riled up, it was a dumb comment on something you (clearly) know nothing about. You got called out, and it turns out you've got nothing to say. Good attempt at a cover though...

[Agamemnon]

The Green Party claims to be neither right nor left... though I could see right-wingers trying to marginalize it by calling it left... and left-wingers doing the same by calling it right.

I don't see it as either (and the Green home page seems to adress this specifically)... though, it _does_ try to be intelligent, which I could see frightening the airheads on both sides (like Incinerator).

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Well, you're not agreeing with me, not sure why you quoted me.

You are right, I miss read your quote. As for the Green Party, they are a protest vote I do not believe they will ever win a seat.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

It IS a drive-by, just to see the left-wing-nuts on this board getting their panties in a knot, looks likes it's working so far, you guys bought it hook, line, and sinker, 4 posts already

Isn't that sort of a textbook definition of trolling? Wow buddy, that's something to be really proud of.

As for the Green votes just being a bunch of protests, I'm sure that's part of it. Nothing wrong with protest votes though, is there? I don't see Harper offering to give them back and he got a hell of a lot more of them than the Green Party.

Meanwhile, I hear they had quite a bit of rain in Edmonton yesterday.

[Cube Inmate]

I can see how it would be easy to generate a similar list of Green party failures, if one had the desire and energy to do so... I'm just saying that a "silver lining" list like the above does a fantastic job of ignoring the huge dark cloud right in the middle.

A debate invite would be a start, but it's not necessary. It would do them more good to run 10 candidates and actually WIN a seat than to continue bragging about running 308 candidates and winning dick all.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

You're proud about bringing nothing to the table? Proud of having nothing to debate?

Shouldn't you be at HF?

We both know it wasn't to get us riled up, it was a dumb comment on something you (clearly) know nothing about. You got called out, and it turns out you've got nothing to say. Good attempt at a cover though...

OK, you really wanna know what I think? Gloves off, I'll give you a piece of my mind about my thoughts on the Green Party's pie-in-the-sky platform: (my comments in italics)

Originally Posted by Greenparty.ca

Green Party MPs will work to:

Justice:

• Actively promote the use of restorative justice, rather than prison, for first time non-violent offenders. (Sure, no jail-time for first time thieves! Let's just make them lecture to school children about the crime of theft!)
• Regulate marijuana under federal legislation as a product similar to alcohol and tobacco. (Yeah, let's have grow-ops at 7-11! Wanna get high? Hit up your friendly neighbourhood weed store! )

Immigrants:

• Regularize the estimated 200,000 people living in Canada without official status. (Read: Let's grant all the illegal immigrants landed PR status! With all the money we propose to spend we could sure use some extra taxpayers!)
• Work to remove unnecessary barriers recognizing the professional credentials of immigrants. (Oh you were a brain surgeon in Yemen? Sure! You can practice here! Just take this 20 question English aptitude test and we'll convert your medical licence right away so you won't have to wash dishes at Swiss Chalet!)

Women:

• Introduce laws guaranteeing a proportion of seats for women in government appointed bodies (Whatever happened to qualifications? Nope, "I got a vagina so you'll have to put me in the parliamentary justice committee even though I have no legal/justice background whatsoever" vs. the former Crown Prosecutor next to me here.)

Culture:

• Increase support for community arts programs and facilities across Canada by establishing stable base-funding at a set percentage of the federal budget. (Remember that ridiculous "art" piece in Banff made out of human semen? I rest my case on government funded "art".)
• Protect Canada's cultural identity during trade negotiations (Don't we practice Multicultralism? Which is it Jimmy? What IS our "cultural identity? HNiC? Why exactly do you need to protect it during trade negotiations?)
• Introduce a law mandating cinemas and video chains to have 20 per cent Canadian content. (You've got to be kidding me, people who go to the movies go because they want to see Hollywood regurgitated junk. Mandatory screen time for Sophisticated and Thought-provoking Canadian Cinema? Are you trying to bankrupt Cineplex Odeon?)

Climate:

The Conservative Party, like U.S. President George Bush, dismisses the importance of Kyoto and even question the very threat of climate change.

(Looks like these treehuggers are the one who didn't read the Conservative's platform When did Harper question climate change? He said publicly Kyoto doesn't work - which is true, it's a pointless bureaucratic exercise of credits trading - and that he'd develop a made-in-Canada solution. Nice to see that the Greens are no better than the Liberals when it comes to misinformed fearmongering)

The Green Party will push to implement a coherent and transparent environmental policy focused on achieving Kyoto targets and going beyond those goals after 2012. (Read: We'll spend more of your tax dollars buying credits because the Kyoto goals are completely unrealistic and impossible to achieve)


Child and Family Well-being:

• Implement a managed reduction in the standard workweek to thirty-five work hours per week. (Cut 5 hours in the standard work week!? Way to screw the economy genius! You are even more delusional than the fools who started the Marijuana Party!)
• Raise benefit levels and increase eligibility under the Employment Insurance Act (read: Encourage more people to take advantage of our great hand-out system - Why work 35 hours a week when you can just claim EI and further increase the quality of life by reducing the work week to 15 minutes - time spent to cash that fat EI cheque!)
• Implement affordable housing programs (Ask Shawnski how he feels about this one, I sure hope they don't hire the Ric McIver to run these programs!)
• Combat racism in hiring practices and give greater recognition to foreign qualifications (Affirmative action? How did that work out in the 70s? Sure, overlook the actual qualified people and hire the Chinese guy because you gotta fill that minority quota. Well, at least under this system I can just drop out of school and be guaranteed a job, why don't I vote for the Greens next time! )

Democracy:

• Lower the voting age to seventeen (Hahahaha yeah let the kids decide how best to run the damn country when they don't even know how much rent would be if their parents charged them market price *wo0t*! If anything they should increase the legal age for everything to 21 until the teenyboppers are snapped out of their little fantasy worlds. It's so nice to be able to talk about your ideals and social consciousness when you don't have a family of 4 to feed and all your living expense is paid for by your Conservative voting parents isn't it?)
• Reduce the mandatory $1,000 candidate deposit to encourage more Canadians to participate in the democratic system. (So we can have nutjobs like that hippie who wanted to turn Calgary into "the Paris of Prairies" from the last municipal election? NO Thanks.)

Taxes:

• Reduce taxes for Canadians earning less than $45,000 per year (Watch your back folks, the neo-Communists are invading, this time with a new twist. What happens to the guy making $46,000 a year? Does he not work as hard as the $45,000 guy? What gives your party the right to impose a two-tier tax system and discriminate against people making over $45Gs a year? Ridiculous. "All Canadians are equal, but the ones paid less are more equal")

Health Care:

• Assist provinces to increase the number of detox and treatment beds for drug and alcohol rehabilitation, create safe injection clinics, needle exchange programs and access for certified addicts to prescriptions for safe doses. (Let's make the entire country into one big East Hastings! Free dope for every crackhead out there! Hey if you can't beat'em, might as well join'em right?)
• Increase taxes on tobacco products, alcohol and junk food (Next time you go to Burger King/TacoTime/McDonalds/A&W for lunch better bring an extra $5 to cover the junk food tax! Hell why not tell the country what time they can watch TV and what time they can go to bed! You're already telling people what to eat!)
• Introduce mandatory labelling of all foods containing genetically modified organisms. (And add another $2 to every item in the grocery stores because all the manufacturers will now have to have informative labels with weird chemical names on them to help you make a healthier choice! I got news for you: 99% of the stuff you eat everyday contains genetically modified organisms in one form or another. Unless you're one of those organic vegetarians who grow your own food in your backyard.)

That is all. That's my beef with the Green Party. I rest my case.

[RougeUnderoos]

Holy smokes. It's not worth the time to argue with that nonsense, but do me a favor. Go to the kitchen, find yourself a can of food and read the label, then tell me if manufacturers don't already have informative labels with "weird chemical names" on them.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Holy ****. It's not worth the time to argue with that nonsense, but do me a favor. Go to the kitchen, find yourself a can of food and read the label, then tell me if manufacturers don't already have informative labels with "weird chemical names" on them.

The labels we have now are nutritional information labels, not a sticker telling people what kind of scary genetically modified food they're buying

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

The labels we have now are nutritional information labels, not a sticker telling people what kind of scary genetically modified food they're buying

What's that I hear? I think it's someone changing a tune.

You are one of a kind, I'll give you that. You are the only person I've ever come across that is actively and vehemently against being told where his food came from. It's like reverse paranoia.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You are one of a kind, I'll give you that. You are the only person I've ever come across that is actively and vehemently against being told where his food came from. It's like reverse paranoia.

If you took time to read my post you would've seen I've just said that there is nothing you can get from a grocery store that isn't "genetically modified" in one way or another already. Given that anyone with an ounce of common sense would know this, why put more red tape on it by forcing the manufacturers of our Oreo cookies and TV dinners to go through the hassle of putting an extra label on the packaging informing people what they already know? It'll just give them another excuse to jack up the price saying the label cost money to produce!

[Agamemnon]

See? There's a list of beefs, was that so hard? Begs the question as to why you made the first two stupid posts when it turns out you actually DO have something to say.

BUT, I basically disagree with you on every point you made. Seeing _zero_ benefit in debating with you on a position you hardly seem willing to change, and since my belief in the Green platform (unachievable due to lack of support as it is) over the Conservatives remains, I think I'll let this one die.

Though, in many of your points, you do sound like a complete ass (as your liberal use of emoticons seems to intend). You're a credit to your Party... let me guess which way you voted... hmm...

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

See? There's a list of beefs, was that so hard? Begs the question as to why you made the first two stupid posts when it turns out you actually DO have something to say.

BUT, I basically disagree with you on every point you made. Seeing _zero_ benefit in debating with you on a position you hardly seem willing to change, and since my belief in the Green platform (unachievable due to lack of support as it is) over the Conservatives remains, I think I'll let this one die.

Though, in many of your points, you do sound like a complete ass (as your liberal use of emoticons seems to intend). You're a credit to your Party... let me guess which way you voted... hmm...

I didn't say what I wanted to say before because I knew you'd (by you I mean you and the majority of LW posters here) turtle like Jakko just like you are doing now, dismissing my points as invalid because they don't jive with your leftwing ideologies without backing up your smack.

I sound like a complete ass because that was my intent, as to why, see above. Anyone who know me outside of an internet message board knows that I can carry out a completely civil conversation/discussion perfectly fine. I do however, admit that I have a strong bias against all things left of centre fiscally because of my personal & family history of being greatly wronged by the Communists, you are free to apply your own judgement about my beliefs but I will choose not to elaborate on my personal history here. As to who I voted for, yes, I "chose my Canada" by voting for the scary right-wing fundamental evangelists with a hidden agenda to axe health care, jail all women who want to have abortions, and send all athiests to concentration camps to "re-educate" them into seeing the advantages of religion. Me along with 36.3% of the 14-some-million who voted on Jan 23 are pure evil. You better watch your back. "im in a gang" - a gang of 5,369,827 Conservative voters.

It might be hard for you to believe but I can respect Layton and his moustache for trying because they have a somewhat comprehensible plan, very idealist and definitely not a financially feasible one with all the irresponsible social spendings but at least they are not telling Canadians what they can or cannot eat.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

If you took time to read my post you would've seen I've just said that there is nothing you can get from a grocery store that isn't "genetically modified" in one way or another already. Given that anyone with an ounce of common sense would know this, why put more red tape on it by forcing the manufacturers of our Oreo cookies and TV dinners to go through the hassle of putting an extra label on the packaging informing people what they already know? It'll just give them another excuse to jack up the price saying the label cost money to produce!

I've got an ounce of common sense and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that not every single item in the grocery store is genetically modified, and not every item in the grocery store would fall under what the Green Party considers genetically modified. That's why they are lobbying for labels on specific products and not for large signs out front.

Speaking of common sense, let's look at, for example, a can of soup. Say it's got 30 ingredients listed (even weird chemical names like "monosodium glutamate"). If they were to add the words "this product contains traces of GM food", does common sense tell you that the price of the label would go up considerably? I mean if they have to list 31 things instead of 30, do you think that would significantly raise or even double the price of the can of soup, as you suggested with your figure of $2 being added on?

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I've got an ounce of common sense and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that not every single item in the grocery store is genetically modified, and not every item in the grocery store would fall under what the Green Party considers genetically modified. That's why they are lobbying for labels on specific products and not for large signs out front.

Speaking of common sense, let's look at, for example, a can of soup. Say it's got 30 ingredients listed (even weird chemical names like "monosodium glutamate"). If they were to add the words "this product contains traces of GM food", does common sense tell you that the price of the label would go up considerably? I mean if they have to list 31 things instead of 30, do you think that would significantly raise or even double the price of the can of soup, as you suggested with your figure of $2 being added on?

My figure of $2 is obviously figurative, and yes, if Campbell Soup has to add a line to its packaging I will bet you the same toonie that they (along with other food manufacturers) will raise hell about it and telling consumers this is increasing their production costs therefore it is being passed back by you. Is it ethical? No, but the Greens will be the ones who put us in this dilemma in the first place.

Besides, why are we arguing about this again? Is it because the federal government should be responsible for something as trivial as informing the public on what they're eating? Is that what we pay our politicians for?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

My figure of $2 is obviously figurative, and yes, if Campbell Soup has to add a line to its packaging I will bet you the same toonie that they (along with other food manufacturers) will raise hell about it and telling consumers this is increasing their production costs therefore it is being passed back by you. Is it ethical? No, but the Greens will be the ones who put us in this dilemma in the first place.

Besides, why are we arguing about this again? Is it because the federal government should be responsible for something as trivial as informing the public on what they're eating? Is that what we pay our politicians for?

Are you serious? The food that we eat is trivial? What else is trivial? The air that we breathe? Obviously the water that we drink is trivial as well. We don't pay our politicians to look after those things either, do we? Oh wait we do. That's the point of having a government after all.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Are you serious? The food that we eat is trivial? What else is trivial? The air that we breathe? Obviously the water that we drink is trivial as well. We don't pay our politicians to look after those things either, do we? Oh wait we do. That's the point of having a government after all.

I am dead serious. If you do not have the common sense to make your own lifestyle choices including what foods you eat, that you have to rely on your government to tell you what to eat then you're way beyond help my friend. A good government's role is to provide infrastructure, law & order and to represent and/or defend its citizens as a whole on the global stage. A good government isn't one to step into its citizen's dining rooms and tax people for eating McDonald's because it is wasting too much money on an inefficient public health care system run by bureaucrats with red tape dispensers where you have to wait 13 hours to be admitted into ER for a cast when you break your left foot.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

I am dead serious. If you do not have the common sense to make your own lifestyle choices including what foods you eat, that you have to rely on your government to tell you what to eat then you're way beyond help my friend. A good government's role is to provide infrastructure, law & order and to represent and/or defend its citizens as a whole on the global stage. A good government isn't one to step into its citizen's dining rooms and tax people for eating McDonald's because it is wasting too much money on an inefficient public health care system run by bureaucrats with red tape dispensers where you have to wait 13 hours to be admitted into ER for a cast when you break your left foot.

The agriculture industry (you know, that one that makes food) is part of the infrastructure of the country. The labels on the food they produce would fall under "law and order". Telling the rest of the world what is in the food we sell them and insisting on certain standards for the food that they sell us sounds eerily like "representing citizens (the people that made the food) on the global stage".

You blather on and on about making your own choices. Some people make the choice to not consume GM foods, but you insist on not giving them the proper information to make their own choice. Who is it again on telling the government to butt out?

Anyway, can you tell me why you are believe GM foods are so dangerous?