Swear words.........what's the deal?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/13505.html

Not sure why anyone would think that a single person decided anything about. It's obviously a cultural thing.

I guess it depends how badly you want to know. The link above is just one book on the subject and I'm sure there are others. An even better answer might be found in academic papers in the social sciences. I'm sure a few anthropologists have looked into it.

[Sparks]

My guess is the F word is an old AngloSaxon word and when William of Norman brought French to England the common language and especially it's sexual words were considered vulgar. It became a class distinction.

That's my understanding too. IIRC, most of our swear words are of Germanic origin, which I think was considered a little "dirty"/low class after French was brought to England.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What's the difference between poop and ****?

Poop is funnier.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I understand that the way in which certain words are used are meant in an obscene way, a degrading way. But so are words such as 'loser', 'fat', 'geek', and 'idiot'. But I guess those words are okay to use.

But who decided this?

Was it one guy centuries ago, bored out of his mind in his hut up in the mountains that came up with a list of swear words?

Did they have some sort of roundtable swear word conference, with a large discussion on which words were bad or good?

Like Jiri said earlier, why is it okay to say 'poop' or 'crap' or 'feces', but not '****'?

In the game thread today, when/if the Sabres score, it's okay to respond with 'crap', 'damn', 'frick', but not '****'?

If I see a beautiful woman walking down the street and I say "man, that girl is ****ing beautiful", how is that bad? It's not degrading.

Personally, I just find it silly that any words or combination of letters used is 'off-limits'.

Then feel free to use any of your words or combinations of letters in future job interviews or perhaps at your wedding or something like that. It's not silly. It's ettiquite and respect in proper society.

Crap, damn, and frick carry less vulgar connotations. If in your own dictionary, you find them to have the same weight as other words, it doesn't neccessarily mean other people do.

There's a place for every kind of word and basically you are questioning who decided what word would mean what for our entire language whose etymology is incredibly complex and ever-evolving as collective product of culture and society. It's not some person in a hut, it's every english speaking person for thousands of years including you and by starting this conversation, you are engaging in that process of changing the nature of language right now. Even in our little microcosm of Calgarypuck, we have our own unique words like Fata and Shinguard. How about you go back and figure out who decided on using these??? You'll realize how futile your question is.

If you really want to know this, go study the etymology of the english language. There's a lot of common words today that share the same roots as those swears and people don't realise it. S*** and Science have the same roots. These words evolved from the same Greek term meaning "split or separate" In regard to the first, it waste being separated from the body and in terms of science, it's the "to separate one thing from another" of distinguishing facts and knowledge. None of these words are acronyms, that's just urban myth.

And I really doubt you really believe what you're saying, if you really felt that it doesn't matter what words you say mean, then would you be comfortable saying these things to other people? Or something much, much, worse? If you can't understand why a word like "idiot" is on a different level than "s***-head" then you really don't get it...but again idiot comes from ancient Greek idiotes which means "private person" or somebody who doesn't participate in society and therefore is completely stupid and useless - a waste of oxygen. Maybe that was like saying: "you're worth s***" to an ancient Greek.

Every swear eventually becomes tame when it's used too much, but again, you are ignoring the fact that they function on many different levels and just because you ignore that doesn't mean that other people don't. So if you really believe that it's silly that words are off-limits, maybe the f***ing beautiful girl would slap you if she heard you say that? Isn't there a reason you don't say that to a person's face? If you were trying to ask a girl out would you say to her that she was f***ing beautiful? (unless you were drunk and it's part of your line) No you wouldn't...why? Because you think it might be degrading or at the least improper and impolite...unless of course it was accepted by everyone in Kootenay...therefore tame and of a different function in your own community (but not the rest of the world).

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Someone a little sour today?

Just asking a question..........if you have an answer for me, fine. But please don't talk down to me because I have a different view or opinion than you.

It's not some person in a hut, it's every english speaking person for thousands of years including you and by starting this conversation, you are engaging in that process of changing the nature of language right now.

I think it was a legitimate question....one I still haven't heard an answer for.

You said it's not some guy in a hut, yet you can't give me an answer. Was it a church? One man in a hut? Several people? It had to start somewhere......where?

Even in our little microcosm of Calgarypuck, we have our own unique words like Fata and Shinguard. How about you go back and figure out who decided on using these??? You'll realize how futile your question is.

I probably could figure out who started these quite easily.

And no, it's not futile.

If you really want to know this, go study the etymology of the english language.

I just wanted to know if anyone here at CP knew.

There are quite a few intelligent people who use this site, and I was wondering if anyone here had an answer for me.

Thanks for the tip, though............

And I really doubt you really believe what you're saying

Then you'd be wrong.

if you really felt that it doesn't matter what words you say mean, then would you be comfortable saying these things to other people?

Yes, and I do. Not all the time, but I do.

If you can't understand why a word like "idiot" is on a different level than "s***-head" then you really don't get it...

Well, I guess I don't get it then.

Isn't there a reason you don't say that to a person's face?

Because we're told as children that you can't say those words. They're bad words. They're swear words.

But when I ask people why they're bad, no one has an answer besides "Well.........because."

I guess I just don't follow everyone else's lead..........just because things have been around for many years doesn't mean it's right or makes sense.......much like religion.

[QUOTE][unless of course it was accepted by everyone in Kootenay/QUOTE]

FYI, Kootenay is not a town or a city, it's a region in Southeastern B.C. divided into 2 regions, the West Kootenays and the East Kootenays.

I live in the West Kootenays, and on the other hand, the Kootenay Ice play in Cranbrook, which is in the East Kootenays.

[Hack&Lube]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound sour, it just seems like everybody keeps saying it over and over again in this thread but you keep asking the question again. And by talking about Kootenay, I was trying to apply the analogy of a region or community in which there's a specific language and special use there. Isn't there a certain vocabulary that only people from there would understand? That probably somebody from New Brunswick wouldn't get?

"It's not some person in a hut, it's every english speaking person for thousands of years including you and by starting this conversation, you are engaging in that process of changing the nature of language right now."

That's the answer. By talking right now, we're challenging whether or not these words are swears or not or whether they are accepted by people or done. Done by enough people in a society over hundreds of years, then it becomes something else.

Sure, like something like "fata" or "shinguard" we have the ability to use the CP search to see who first used it, and it's likely there was somebody who first used what we consider as swears for the first time and eventually, just like fata and shinguard, people picked up on the hidden meaning and it became spread out in society - however, as swears they remain taboo. Even the Oxford English Dictionary which prides itself on publishing most words and their origins refused to publish the F-word until the late 19th century. The word probably comes from a Scandanavian word close to a 1000 years old so there's a 1000 years we know nothing about where this word was basically said in secret or in what would be considered "urban" or "slang" that changes rapidly without any record. That's like saying: "I want to know the name of the caveman who invented fire and what cave and year he did it in".

Nevertheless, the original word was probably a normal word, but somebody used it in a way that others would understand that it implied sexuality. It's the implied meaning and the understanding that sexuality was vulgar and not to be discussed openly that makes the word vulgar and profane. This is like shinguard. It's actually just a piece of hockey equipment to everybody else, but somebody used it here on CP to stand for the S-word and everybody here knows what it means. We say shinguard instead of the S-word because it's less offensive to people that might not realize it, or want to repeat the word when they read it (also to get around filters). That's the same thing as frick, as diminutive form that people use to avoid saying the real word.

It's not somebody putting words together in the alphabet and decidnig they were bad, swears are slang and all come from an original word. The entire English language has changed incredibly over millenia and by way of people speaking and accents and slang, etc. words get changed, mixed up, made up, etc. Just look at "fo shizzle" - everybody knows what that means "for sure", but did anybody know what that meant 10 years ago? Yet that's entered into popular and understood English lexicon, even outside of the original rap and ethnic origins, through popular culture, everybody (under a certain age) knows and therefore it's part of common English and that generation will grow up with that extra bit. Who knows, maybe in 1000 years everybody will be saying "floew schnizzlewizziedizzle" or something instead of "for sure", would they be able to remember Snoop?

Again, I really apologize for sounding sour or condescending, wasn't in a good mood.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by fotze

Words are harmless, context is everything. Listen to George Carlin that is his main premise. He shows even rape can be funny in the right context.

I dont know about you, but I don't think there are many contexts where I don't find rape funny.

What?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Good post Hack.

I appreciate what you're saying, and I do undertsand what you're getting at.

And no need to apologize, I think you're a good poster........no worries.

[Seachd]

It's important to know that it's not just putting letters together to get bad words. They're not invented, they're actual words. It's all culture and society.

In Norwegian, the word "skit", which is pronounced pretty much exactly the same as "****", basically just means dirt, and when you say it in the same context we say it in English, it means no worse than darn.

The difference? It isn't just a single decision made by one or more people. Languages are constantly changing and evolving. This is just one example of that.