[PGT] Flames 2 Penguins 6

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

9-3-0 home record
3-6-4 road record

top 5 home record, bottom 5 road record

Dustin Wolf: 8-4-1, .918, 2.59, Team P% of .654
Dan Vladar: 4-5-3, .900, 2.87, Team P% of .458

Without Wolf playing at a calder-level, it's just a flat out bottom-5'ish team.

That's not to throw Vladar under the bus either, I think he's been very good - he just hasn't outright carried the team the way Wolf has at times this year.

A Team P% of .654 would put the Flames at 6th in the league
A Team P% of .458 would put the Flames at 27th in the league

Our rookie goalie has been Team MVP. That's very cool to see, and it looks like we've developed and drafted a cornerstone piece. That's no small feat.

The Flames now need to draft the centre and the defenceman to build around.

[Macindoc]

Can’t use retention spots to move players with multi-year contracts, because they are available in limited supply. Andersson could be an exception if for a huge return. Keep at least one of the two remaining retention slots for taking on and flipping someone on a big expiring contract. Hope and pray that the CBA extension will include one or two compliance buyouts. Only trade futures for high-ceiling centres under 25. Keep rotating goalies, don’t need the boost in the standings from overplaying Wolf. Trade anyone over 25 you can get a return for without giving up an asset. Keep Cooley. Take on bad contracts with less than 2 years remaining to keep above the cap floor.

Bad team is bad. Need to make sure that is reflected in how the team finishes in the standings.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Dustin Wolf: 8-4-1, .918, 2.59, Team P% of .654
Dan Vladar: 4-5-3, .900, 2.87, Team P% of .458

Without Wolf playing at a calder-level, it's just a flat out bottom-5'ish team.

That's not to throw Vladar under the bus either, I think he's been very good - he just hasn't outright carried the team the way Wolf has at times this year.

A Team P% of .654 would put the Flames at 6th in the league
A Team P% of .458 would put the Flames at 27th in the league

Our rookie goalie has been Team MVP. That's very cool to see, and it looks like we've developed and drafted a cornerstone piece. That's no small feat.

The Flames now need to draft the centre and the defenceman to build around.

Parekh might be that dman, and a pretty good mix of guys around him.

They have a lot of wingers.

They really just need to get 2 strong young centers.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If the players don’t care why do I

I just don't see this as a care or effort issue. Bad teams look like they aren't putting in an effort because the other team imposes their will.
The Flames don't have a single 1st line player. So everyone up front is slotted completely wrong.

[Robbob]

I guess a great night to be out at a Christmas party.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Locke

Oh...nobody really covered themselves in Glory last night. Yeah, Kadri and Huberdeau scored, sure, but too little too late and even that faint damning praise is disingenuine because its not like they were without their own faults, however, nor were they getting much in the way of help.

Overall Kadri and Huberdeau played okay...it just wasn't anyone's night. The whole nightmarish road-trip was a complete rollercoaster from Hell...just brush the dirt of your shoulders and get back to it.

The point is that some posters are so eager to criticize their favorite hated player that they have to bring them up even when they were the only guys who scored. Why not complain about, say, Zary, or Pospisil, or Vladar, or Andersson? They did less.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The point is that some posters are so eager to criticize their favorite hated player that they have to bring them up even when they were the only guys who scored. Why not complain about, say, Zary, or Pospisil, or Vladar, or Andersson? They did less.

They're also paid to do less. They're the supporting cast.

If you want to be the 'Big Ticket' it comes with big expectations. And unfortunately eventually you start running out of other people to point fingers at.

You want the Big Dollars? It comes with Big Criticism due to Big Expectations.

Thats life in the NHL. Its a 'Results Based' industry.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I just don't see this as a care or effort issue. Bad teams look like they aren't putting in an effort because the other team imposes their will.
The Flames don't have a single 1st line player. So everyone up front is slotted completely wrong.

Some vets look like they’re going through the motions, but you’re right, every single forward is not slotted properly.

I still have hope that Zary could be a decent 2C, but in order to do so, he will need some serious upper body strengthening to improve his dismal faceoff%. Coronato is probably a middle 6 winger. At this point, Kadri and Backlund are 3Cs. Most other forwards belong on a third line. Kuzmenko and fourth line players are not NHL calibre.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Locke

They're also paid to do less. They're the supporting cast.

If you want to be the 'Big Ticket' it comes with big expectations. And unfortunately eventually you start running out of other people to point fingers at.

You want the Big Dollars? It comes with Big Criticism due to Big Expectations.

Thats life in the NHL. Its a 'Results Based' industry.

This is a nonsense argument in a PGT for a game where your “big expectations” guys scored and the others didn’t. Is the complaint really that Kadri and Huberdeau didn’t score 7 goals to win the game?

If you think NHL pay scales are based solely on this basis you are sadly mistaken. Zary is paid what he is because he’s on an ELC, not because he’s a supporting cast member.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Some vets look like they’re going through the motions, but you’re right, every single forward is not slotted properly.

I still have hope that Zary could be a decent 2C, but in order to do so, he will need some serious upper body strengthening to improve his dismal faceoff%. Coronato is probably a middle 6 winger. At this point, Kadri and Backlund are 3Cs. Most other forwards belong on a third line. Kuzmenko and fourth line players are not NHL calibre.

Yup that's exactly right. The D is holding their own, frankly better than I anticipated. But the forward group is over-matched. Backlund holds his own most nights, but he's not going to generate offense.

I mean the streak of games with 3 goals or less tells the tale.

And when you are over-matched it looks like you aren't trying because you just can't get anything done.

Outworking the other team is a nice idea in concept, but in practice, talent beats work ethic over the long-haul.

This team doesn't have enough talent.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yup that's exactly right. The D is holding their own, frankly better than I anticipated. But the forward group is over-matched. Backlund holds his own most nights, but he's not going to generate offense.

I mean the streak of games with 3 goals or less tells the tale.

And when you are over-matched it looks like you aren't trying because you just can't get anything done.

Outworking the other team is a nice idea in concept, but in practice, talent beats work ethic over the long-haul.

This team doesn't have enough talent.

It’s crazy that people think the players are not trying and all they have to do is flip on the effort switch and they will score more goals.

[SuperMatt18]

Part of the problem is the style they play too.

It's very low risk offensive style of play that is reliant on high effort from the team, and generally invites a bit of pressure from the outside, but attempts to limit the high danger.

But if:

A) Your goalie has an average night and some of those outside chances go in.
B) Your team starts to make some out of character defensive zone mistakes and that pressure turns to more scoring chances
C) The level of energy / effort dips a bit in terms of forecheck / discipline

Then you could into some ugly stretches. Because as much as there is a lack of talent, the system also almost magnifies that a bit since they aren't going to take many risks to try to "cheat" for offense either.

[Enoch Root]

That was a tough one, but we knew there were going to be some tough ones.

The Flames headed out on the road sitting 10th overall (winning percentage), and come home in 15th, which just shows how quickly a team can slide down the standings if they struggle. And there are still 60 games remaining in the season.

My guess is that, by New Year's they will probably be about .500 or maybe a game over. If that's the case, they'll probably be sitting around 18th to 20th overall.

And then it's time to start selling.

[Burning Beard]

I honestly bet Conroy is a bit relieved by this road trip. It will make him easier to sell and not feel pressured from fans or above to change course. He is no idiot and knows what needs to be done.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Parekh might be that dman, and a pretty good mix of guys around him.

They have a lot of wingers.

They really just need to get 2 strong young centers.

Yeah, I'm hopeful on Parekh. Insane amounts of upside, and it's just one of things there where I'm like..."once we see it translate to the NHL, look out" but until that point happens, I feel like I did with Wolf. The talent is there, but will it translate?

There's so much skill in Parekh that I'm leaning towards 'yes', but until it happens it'll be a question mark for me.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Trip could've cemented them in the division lead. 4 beatable teams. 1 point.

Some things about this team never change.

[1qqaaz]

Excluding shootouts, the Flames haven't scored more than 3 goals since the third game of the season.
Really, it's amazing that they've won as many games as they have with so little offensive production.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I honestly bet Conroy is a bit relieved by this road trip. It will make him easier to sell and not feel pressured from fans or above to change course. He is no idiot and knows what needs to be done.

My thoughts exactly. I'm glad the tumble back down to earth happened now and not close to the trade deadline.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Part of the problem is the style they play too.

It's very low risk offensive style of play that is reliant on high effort from the team, and generally invites a bit of pressure from the outside, but attempts to limit the high danger.

But if:

A) Your goalie has an average night and some of those outside chances go in.
B) Your team starts to make some out of character defensive zone mistakes and that pressure turns to more scoring chances
C) The level of energy / effort dips a bit in terms of forecheck / discipline

Then you could into some ugly stretches. Because as much as there is a lack of talent, the system also almost magnifies that a bit since they aren't going to take many risks to try to "cheat" for offense either.

Curiously, early in the year, they played with two F below/straddling the goal line during the PP, with the other F and one D moving from half-boards to centre-slot; the remaining D stayed on the blue line. While this had the disadvantage of pulling all the oppo down towards the net (and leaving puck retrieval to the lone D on the blue line), they were reasonably successful moving the puck that way, and similarly even when not on the PP.


But they've stopped doing that, and have started sitting back taking perimeter (Sutter) shots again. Don't know if this is because Huska is preaching Defence and doesn't want to see them get lit up or not. But ... they're getting lit up anyway. Seems like the entire concept of their offence has regressed to "take no risk", and they've stopped playing as a team to drive their way to the front of the net. Frustrating as hell to watch a lot of the time.

[Goriders]

I posted this after the Blue Jackets game. I think it will be a common thene:

They are falling into a pattern:

- good start. Lots of chances. Zero goals.
- take a penalty. Lose all momentum. Get behind by one or two.
- make a push in the third period but too little too late.

The positives:
- they compete hard every game
- they seem to care
- goaltending
- defence has improved a lot
- youngsters are getting better every game
- pp and pk are getting better

Negatives:
- they can’t score goals to save their lives
- the top end of our salary structure provides zero offense