I'm more worried this time around he has nothing to lose and nobody to be the voice of reason. This is going to be a shartshow.
Ya, at the start of his last team he had experienced knowledgeable people around him. Now he's got Elon and RFK. He's starting out worse than he left at last time.
It'll be interesting how long the love fest lasts with Elon, they both like power and control, and as soon as that comes to a conflict in a position they feel is important, well, negotiating compromise positions isn't exactly something either of them are capable of. I give it until April.
Reading through the posts on the other thread, the delusion is strong.
Trump improved in a LOT of demographics all across America, and pushed a lot of blue states more red. There is a reason for that, and the Democrats need to give their head a shake.
On the other hand Harris couldn't even meet the same numbers that Biden got, and from what I saw this morning, was there even a single county where she even tied Biden's numbers from 2020?
Wake up and smell the roses.
Run a candidate with brains, present a common sense platform that focuses on the things people care about, and stop calling Trump Hitler just because you lose.
Democrats have no one to blame but themselves. And many of us said this exact scenario would happen when Harris became the candidate. She's a dud. Has been a dud for years, and shouldn't be near political office. The fact that so many here lapped up the media's stupidity that she's qualified is downright hilarious.
There are tons of better candidates.
I guess Dean Phillips was right.
Oh well.
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That was always going to be a massive hurdle. It's definitely disheartening that Trump won on the issue by promising to fight inflation with a bunch of things that will absolutely make inflation worse.
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They've moved right almost every election after 2008. Since Obama's second term, they've been bleeding support from their traditional base
Leftist policies (e.g. legalizing marijuana, minimum wage hikes, etc.) have all outperformed the Democrats themselves in the last 4ish elections (I'm including midterms).
This would seem to suggest that leftist policies are more popular than the Democrats themselves. Maybe adopting and promoting these policies could bring some of that working class vote back. We know for damn sure that courting Bush-era neocons ain't it.
Promoting these policies in a common sense way that appeals to the working class vote would 100% win them the election.
The Democrats are literal morons. Courting Cheney? That is the way forward? What on earth did they expect the younger generation to do? For 20 years Cheney was the scum of the earth (still is), but this time around he's on the good side?
Sure hope this brings about a reset and gets rid of the turdbags that decided on these things.
I think the first think is that this election hinged on about a 2-3% swing in the electorate.
People look at this result and say Democrats were rejected but that’s not really what happened. 3/100 People changed their minds between 2020 and 2024. Major changes in democratic policies aren’t required. Quite simply it’s in the selling of the candidate and the plans.
Stealing from another post in the other thread that was particularly astute. Trump offered simple solutions to simple problems and Harris offered complex solutions to complex problems. The first is more attractive the second is more real.
This is an ongoing failure of democrats and when they do distill it to something more simple they are terrible at it. Ie defund the police. Nenshis politics in full sentences is no longer desired in the key groups swinging to the right.
The Dems lost blue collar workers because they couldn’t accept that they are a little racist.
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Also, the issue is that Democrats are not attacking Trump himself, they are attacking (you) Trump voters, that you are evil. That's a huge problem they need to rectify. Are they going to call Vance Hitler next?
Republicans don't say this about Democrat voters, they just concede that you have different values, maybe also misinformed, maybe also gullible (fake news) but that's the extent of it.
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Also, the issue is that Democrats are not attacking Trump himself, they are attacking (you) Trump voters, that you are evil. That's a huge problem they need to rectify. Are they going to call Vance Hitler next?
Republicans don't say this about Democrat voters, they just concede that you have different values, maybe also misinformed, maybe also gullible (fake news) but that's the extent of it.
Oh that makes sense.......the GOP took the high road.
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Promoting these policies in a common sense way that appeals to the working class vote would 100% win them the election.
The Democrats are literal morons. Courting Cheney? That is the way forward? What on earth did they expect the younger generation to do? For 20 years Cheney was the scum of the earth (still is), but this time around he's on the good side?
Sure hope this brings about a reset and gets rid of the turdbags that decided on these things.
Yeah, we don't agree on much, but this campaign deserves to be mercilessly ridiculed for the next two decades for the Cheney #### alone. Whoever ran the campaign shouldn't even be allowed to run a campaign for student body president after this.
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The Democrats have generally presented themselves as the party of common interest (equal rights for all, pay a fair share of taxes, etc.).
The Republicans have been a party of self interest (right to defend yourself, don't take my money for taxes, what's mine is mine, etc.)
As our society has become both more diverse and more individualized/less interactive, people are voting less with a mindset of common interest. More now than ever, it's easier to move and work wherever you want. You can surround yourself with people like you. Your online experience, your music experience, your shopping experience, your entertainment experience, these are all becoming increasingly curated and individualized.
When you are trying to get everyone to agree on things, and the country is more diverse and divided and self-centered than ever, that's a lot harder than telling people to vote for themselves.
And even though many people voted for Trump when it is NOT in their self-interest, he convinced them that it is.
Dems try to sell a common good agenda. People don't believe them. Nor do they believe the Democrats can make it happen even if they do believe them.
I never really heard the case FOR Harris. She was just a fresh coat of paint on an old, sputtering car.
The Democrats run on this promise and then don't deliver when in power. Its probably that simple. We can do the "but what about the things they're good on" all day but if you have a lower income person who doesn't care about trans rights or Ukraine or whatever, then what?
If their lives aren't any better under Democrats, what's the persuasive argument for them to pick you? Its as easy as looking back at union Democrats; a bucket load of these people are spiritually and socially no different than Trump's base but they know which side protected their livelihoods. Take that approach to entirety of people making under $___ per year and watch how money and personal interests can sway people. You don't need full ideological consistency, you just need a coalition that accepts and supports enough of the larger plan.
But Democrats remain terrified of attaching themselves fully to popular policies (medicare for all) or actually fighting for ones they embrace (minimum wage) because a fight risks losing the centrist-leaning-right voter and that's who matters most to them. They celebrated an endorsement from Dick Cheney while running from immigration because, again, humanizing undocumented workers, explicitly pointing out their contributions and laying out what their absence would mean scares some of those people whose votes mean the most to the party.
So what are you? As Pepsifree puts it, what is your 'soul'?
I think this is good, but the bottom line to me, is the Dem's made two major mistakes, and whether it was due to sheer arrogance or not will need to be discovered.
The bottom line, is that everyone knew that the two key issues were the economy and immigration.
The Republicans and Trump focused on that and didn't let the Democrats pull them off that hill
The Democrats focused on social or progressive issues, and didn't read the room that if they had polled American's that this the Democratic issues were far down on the chart, they wanted to hear about economics and solving the border issues. The Democrats did a piss poor job during their campaign of addressing that.
Maybe and more likely it was a huge tactical mistake to let Biden sit in that seat for as long as they did. Harris really needed more time. And in the brief time that she did campaign and steadily lost momentum, I don't think that American's were overly impressed with her presentation, and maybe, they saw her as phony.
I don't think that the over reliance on celebrities helped, and espcially the celebrities that they chose to roll out. I remember watching Meryl Streep on a Q+A with Kamala and a few others phoned in and it was cringe and came across as more insincere and scripted then anything else.
Every election we all talk about the old saying "Its the economy Stupid". This one was literally about the economy and the Democrats refused to believe it, and instead relied on issues that really didn't resonate this time around.
I think an undervalued issue was the choice of VP candidates. Walz was a disaster and was marked as dishonest almost from the start and then he fumbled badly in the VP debate. They literally gave JD Vance a questionable candidate a lot of energy and momentum.
Now we are going to see the Democratic Party literally fall on each other and we're going to see a power struggle as the party will be pretty much decapitated and there will be a massive power vacuum.
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The Dems lost blue collar workers because they couldn’t accept that they are a little racist.
The sexist part is really more of it though. The fact so many rust belt counties reverted to almost exact 2016 splits against 2020 is very telling. Ultimately the big lesson here for Dems is women are still eons away from being acceptable to crucial parts of the electorate. Sticking with WASPs (or WASCs) for the foreseeable future should be the #1 thing they do after this.
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On the other hand Harris couldn't even meet the same numbers that Biden got
You've mentioned that several times. Are you unaware that Biden's margin of victory was the 2nd highest of the 21st century after Obama in 2008? Like, did you seriously think Harris was going to improve on that?
So because the US is weird and allows a lame duck President to retain power for a couple months, what can Biden do? Cut all aid to Israel before they finish off their conquest? Send all the weapons to Ukraine? Make the transition really suck? Declare war somewhere? What's the worst he could get away with?
I don't know, something tells me people are going to rate the economy much higher in a few months, even if nothing materially changes. Just like Biden being 81 was a massive concern, but once he dropped out no one worried about age anymore, even though Trump is 78.
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Republicans don't say this about Democrat voters, they just concede that you have different values, maybe also misinformed, maybe also gullible (fake news) but that's the extent of it.
This is absolute ####ing nonsense. Trump called the left "the enemy within" like a week ago. Republicans have spent years calling anyone who wants to make health care affordable a radical socialist.
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So because the US is weird and allows a lame duck President to retain power for a couple months, what can Biden do? Cut all aid to Israel before they finish off their conquest? Send all the weapons to Ukraine? Make the transition really suck? Declare war somewhere? What's the worst he could get away with?
Oh that makes sense.......the GOP took the high road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
This is absolute ####ing nonsense. Trump called the left "the enemy within" like a week ago. Republicans have spent years calling anyone who wants to make health care affordable a radical socialist.
Yes, the candidates and the ideology. For all the crap Trump and other Republicans say, has he ever talked about stupid, idiot voters like the Democrats do? They're not attacking you.
2016: Deplorables
2024: Garbage
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Think the deportation issue didn't just resonate with the white voters, it resonated with the people who will get deported.
Those communities are not as tight knit as people like to think, they likely want each other deported.
Harris doing call her daddy got her bad press; I got laughed at that. But all she did was chase horny white men who can't get laid to the polls and angered those white women. Instead, she focused on bringing on Jennifer Lopez who most people loathe, and part of the Diddy crime family.
She reached out to Rogan before the Trump camp did, and his entire team went on the show, and she balked.
Going into those rural areas, you likely won't win but you can steal votes that can all add up in the end.
Trump is a crazy, but I am not worried about him. I am more worried about the scum that have attached themselves to him. Elmo, RFK Jr, Gabbard, Miller. That is the concerning thing.
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