[Signing] Florida signs Carter Verhaeghe (8 Years x 7M AAV)

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

We are in the early stages of these large 8 year deals being handed out regularly by teams. It's going to be interesting to see how things look by the end of the decade as there will be several teams with a lot of money tied up into mid-30 year old players. I get that the cap will go up coming out of the pandemic years but it's still going to be hard for teams with 3+ players making $$$$ in their mid-30's especially if they have declined sharply which will happen to some of these guys.

GMs realize these deals won’t age well. But your window of contention doesn’t stay open forever. For a team like the Panthers, it makes perfect sense to put more importance on the next four seasons than the four seasons after that.

[GioforPM]

In 5 years $7M is going to be way less significant

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

GMs realize these deals won’t age well. But your window of contention doesn’t stay open forever. For a team like the Panthers, it makes perfect sense to put more importance on the next four seasons than the four seasons after that.

Oh I totally understand why they are handing out the contracts. These GM's know that the guy that replaces them will be tasked with the aftermath and I'm interested in what the landscape will look like at the end of this decade as the Wild are really the first team that's had to deal with this but there will be more teams in the coming years that will have to deal with building a team around a lot of dead money or part time pressbox players earning top 6 money.

[Enoch Root]

Funny how this contract seems pretty reasonable, but Kadri's is viewed - by many Flame fans - as terrible and unmovable.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Funny how this contract seems pretty reasonable, but Kadri's is viewed - by many Flame fans - as terrible and unmovable.

Recency bias? 34 and 42 goals the last 2 years.

Kadri plays the more important position but older. Kadri was clutch in the playoffs as well.

I think Kadri has a market, but I don't think he wants to leave.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Recency bias? 34 and 42 goals the last 2 years.

Kadri plays the more important position but older. Kadri was clutch in the playoffs as well.

I think Kadri has a market, but I don't think he wants to leave.

Last 3 years...

Kadri........: 218 pts in 235 games (.93 PPG)
Verhaeghe: 200 pts in 235 games (.85 PPG)

And that's Kadri's 31-33 years (i.e. part of the contract) vs Verhaghe's 26-28 years.

[DJones]

Difference is Verhaeghe fits their timeline while Kadri doesn't fit ours.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DJones

Difference is Verhaeghe fits their timeline while Kadri doesn't fit ours.

Was waiting for this.

First, he did when he was signed.

And second, that does not impact the value/mobility of the contract.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

We are in the early stages of these large 8 year deals being handed out regularly by teams. It's going to be interesting to see how things look by the end of the decade as there will be several teams with a lot of money tied up into mid-30 year old players. I get that the cap will go up coming out of the pandemic years but it's still going to be hard for teams with 3+ players making $$$$ in their mid-30's especially if they have declined sharply which will happen to some of these guys.

For sure a few teams will end up like San Jose. For teams like Washington and Florida that got their Cup, even if they end up in the gutter at the end of the run, the juice was worth the squeeze.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by DJones

Difference is Verhaeghe fits their timeline while Kadri doesn't fit ours.

Kadri did fit our timeline, and what was what this team was missing a true #2C.

Everything went to ####s after that, but the plan was to compete and win.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Kadri did fit our timeline, and what was what this team was missing a true #2C.

Everything went to ####s after that, but the plan was to compete and win.

You've got the order wrong. If we had signed Kadri before we lost Johnny and Tkachuk, this would be the case. But we lost Johnny, traded Tkachuk, then signed Kadri.

We were not sure whether we were competitive when we signed him. It was a dumb move to sign him when we weren't sure. It would have been way, way smarter to take a beat and see where the team was at in general after losing it's two most important offensive players. Check and see if the window is still the same.

This is why it was always the dumbest and most compounding of decisions. We lost a first and monahan, who was worth another first later, just to sign Kadri on a bet that we would be as good as we were before the key players left.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You've got the order wrong. If we had signed Kadri before we lost Johnny and Tkachuk, this would be the case. But we lost Johnny, traded Tkachuk, then signed Kadri.

We were not sure whether we were competitive when we signed him. It was a dumb move to sign him when we weren't sure. It would have been way, way smarter to take a beat and see where the team was at in general after losing it's two most important offensive players. Check and see if the window is still the same.

This is why it was always the dumbest and most compounding of decisions. We lost a first and monahan, who was worth another first later, just to sign Kadri on a bet that we would be as good as we were before the key players left.

If we kept Tkachuk and Johnny we would have lost Mangiapane and probably have a hole in the middle as well and weaker defence.

The team went into the offseason looking for a top 4 D. We replaced Johnny's 115 points with Huberdeaus 115 points, and got back Weegar as well. Both came in at the cap cost of what Johnny left for. We replaced Tkachuk with Kadri at a more important position for cheaper.

I don't think anyone thought Huberdeau would have the biggest point drop in NHL history.

The team that won the division stayed intact otherwise and got better on the backend.

It's a flawed way to build a team, but they still had good players.

[Monahammer]

I disagree. Again, there is substantial evidence of dumbasses like you and I on this board looking at the state of the team post trade and saying "Wait a second..."

Kadri replacing Tkachuk is hilarious. No one at all thought that, and further it runs exactly contrary to what you said above about adding a second line centre to the same squad. So we both added and subbed out said second line centre for maybe our most important offensive driver? That's idiotic and incongruent.

[Enoch Root]

The Flames were still competitive when they signed Kadri. There is no debate there. It didn't work out, but suggesting they were no longer in their competitive window is just wrong.

Anyway, this thread is about the Verhaeghe contract, and my point was that Kadri's contract is, at worst, equivalent to Verhaeghe's (despite the rhetoric from some Flames fans)

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I disagree. Again, there is substantial evidence of dumbasses like you and I on this board looking at the state of the team post trade and saying "Wait a second..."

Kadri replacing Tkachuk is hilarious. No one at all thought that, and further it runs exactly contrary to what you said above about adding a second line centre to the same squad. So we both added and subbed out said second line centre for maybe our most important offensive driver? That's idiotic and incongruent.

Because Tkachuk was great shutting down McDavid, or was it Barkov and Kadri doing the dirty work when their teams beat Edmonton?

Tkachuk is also playing on the 2nd line in Florida while Verhaeghe is on the top line with Barkov.

[bc-chris]

my kids are going to love this. Verhaeghe is one of their favorite panthers (my daughter even has a panthers tee with his name/number)


i still haven't figured out why they pronounce his last name "ver-an-chie" (they are only 9 & 11 - so who knows), but whatever... she proudly wears her shirt to school to troll oiler fans . it's adorable really! ha!

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Flames were still competitive when they signed Kadri. There is no debate there. It didn't work out, but suggesting they were no longer in their competitive window is just wrong.

Anyway, this thread is about the Verhaeghe contract, and my point was that Kadri's contract is, at worst, equivalent to Verhaeghe's (despite the rhetoric from some Flames fans)

How can you justify that statement? We lost our two best players. We gained two unknowns in Weegar and Huberdeau. Yeah, both had performed alright elsewhere, but realistically no one could know if we were competitive or not. Certainly there were open questions about it. The opportunity was there to assess but we bet that we were still in the competitive window. We weren't, but didn't know until we had already made decisions as if we were.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

How can you justify that statement? We lost our two best players. We gained two unknowns in Weegar and Huberdeau. Yeah, both had performed alright elsewhere, but realistically no one could know if we were competitive or not. Certainly there were open questions about it. The opportunity was there to assess but we bet that we were still in the competitive window. We weren't, but didn't know until we had already made decisions as if we were.

Look at the roster at the time - entirely composed of veteran players. To replace Tkachuk, they acquired Huberdeau and Weegar. The defense was : Weegar, Andersson, Hanifin, Tanev, Zadorov, Stone and Mackey. The forwards were: Huberdeau, Kadri, Backlund, Lindholm, Toffoli, Coleman, Mangiapane, Dube, Lucic, Lewis, and Markstrom in net.

They ABSOLUTELY were in a competitive window.

Whether that was ill advised, whether or not the roster actually delivered, is irrelevant. The point here was that they were in a window when they signed Kadri. Again - pretty indisputable.

[Monahammer]

We're being pedantic here, but ultimately I disagree. The Window was known when the team played. Inarguably, the team lost its two best players. At that point, in my opinion, no one knew what the window was. Flames management guessed the window was still competitive, but they were proven wrong pretty quickly. The decision point for Calgary was in the middle of that, but they couldn't have known that the team was competitive.

Age wise, I agree, the team was old. And had just become substantially older by subbing out Johnny, Monahan, and Tkachuk for Huberdeau, Weegar, and Kadri. But the window can't only be based on the age of players. But there was no window... the players that gave us a window left prior to us signing Kadri.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

We're being pedantic here, but ultimately I disagree. The Window was known when the team played. Inarguably, the team lost its two best players. At that point, in my opinion, no one knew what the window was. Flames management guessed the window was still competitive, but they were proven wrong pretty quickly. The decision point for Calgary was in the middle of that, but they couldn't have known that the team was competitive.

Age wise, I agree, the team was old. And had just become substantially older by subbing out Johnny, Monahan, and Tkachuk for Huberdeau, Weegar, and Kadri. But the window can't only be based on the age of players. But there was no window... the players that gave us a window left prior to us signing Kadri.

The team won the division the prior year.

They replaced Gaudreau and Tkachuk with Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar. AT THE TIME, the general consensus was that that was an upgrade, or at worst, even.

They were, without a doubt, in a competitive window. Again, the fact that it failed (miserably), is irrelevant to the point.