Craig Conroy - treasure hunter extraordinaire

[jayswin]

The athletic is absolute garbage for most small to midsized markets. Like laughably bad. It started out promising but once they cut budget on every non major team/city it turned irrelevant.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I'm not sure how you can grade a trade of a rental for future assets.

It's not relevant if the rental walks away, there likely was never any intention for that to occur.

The only question is whether that rental could have been traded for more future assets.

And no one really knows that.

But it appears that Conroy has done just fine.

But saying anyone wins a rental trade? For the team acquiring the rental play, they pretty much need to win the SC for it to be a success. But that wouldn't lessen the value to the team trading the rental player.

It's all a waste of a dumb exercise.

On the other hand, if we value asset management, what happens with the rental does matter

What does Calgary have today from the Lindholm trade? Multiple assets, all of value
What does Vancouver have today? Nothing

You don’t want to call that a win, you do you

[My2Cents]

Calgary is a small market and doesn’t seem to blow smoke up journalists or networks. As a result they really aren’t liked. This matches my personality so I am all for it. Rather them count us out than do whatever they do in Edmonton. Plus they will come around when we have a good team.

[dirk diggler]

not sure how much stock i put in the opinion of the media, the same media that picks the Oilers to win it all EVERY year.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

LOL hasn't won a trade?

Did they miss that haul for 2 months of Lindholm?

That trade alone has moved the needle on the Flames prospect pool.

Sharangovich signed a 5 year extension and put up 31 goals. Where's Toffoli? Not in NJ.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I can see not loving the Tanev trade when they could have a 1st for taking on a cap dump.

The Dallas 1st would have been a later pick anyways, and we got a prospect they probably graded as a 1st rounder and looks like someone who will play for us.

[Locke]

Conroy is a Truffle Pig.

He finds value out of nowhere.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I'm not sure how you can grade a trade of a rental for future assets.

It's not relevant if the rental walks away, there likely was never any intention for that to occur.

The only question is whether that rental could have been traded for more future assets.

And no one really knows that.

But it appears that Conroy has done just fine.

But saying anyone wins a rental trade? For the team acquiring the rental play, they pretty much need to win the SC for it to be a success. But that wouldn't lessen the value to the team trading the rental player.

It's all a waste of a dumb exercise.

Vancouver had every intention of signing Lindholm, they made him offers. He didn't sign, kept on sucking so much they almost traded him at the deadline lol.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by looooob

I guess his other trade of note (with apologies to Emilio P) would be Mangiapane for a 2nd. which, in the end I guess maybe the timing could be questioned- although we already see the issue with the glut of tweener/veteran roster guys holding up slots. I assume the cap was cleared for something that didn't happen, but I suppose the alternative would have been keep Mangiapane and not sign Mantha. would we get more for Mangiapane at the deadline than the late 2nd we got and any Mantha return? probably not

I kind of like the Mangiapane trade. You have to respect that he saved the club $5 million by trading him when he did. They didn’t need cap space but maybe the internal budget savings allowed them to sign Mantha. Now separate discussion, but kind of wish they passed on Mantha.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The athletic is absolute garbage for most small to midsized markets. Like laughably bad. It started out promising but once they cut budget on every non major team/city it turned irrelevant.

I finally killed my subscription. Even the almost free didn’t bring me back.

[FlamesAddiction]

Still have to see which Markstrom shows up for New Jersey. I am predicting that trade to look very bad for the Devils in the not too distant future.

It is pretty funny that it seems like most Flames fans were happy with the trades while media from outside of the market are more critical.

Personally, I think all the trades were fine. The Lindholm and Toffoli trades in particular are looking like early wins.

Also have to see what we do with some of the cap space and retention slots that were saved instead of used to try and squeeze more from teams. It’s fine to judge individual moves, but I prefer to look at the sum of everything. Assets in for assets out, and it looks pretty good to me.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

, but kind of wish they passed on Mantha.

Very separate discussion and at worse Mantha is a nothing move. If he doesn't work out, he's just paid for a year and moves on. Unless there is something personally with Mantha I can't understand wishing to pass on him, he's a potential trade deadline move, that's why he's here.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by looooob

as complete and long as your list is, don't forget Misa and Jamieson too in the Lindholm haul

heck by roster players alone (and yes Lindholm- who I liked a fair bit- is a more complete player) Kuzmenko outscored him 2:1 last year. comblne that with the unlimited list of add-ons I have no clue how Conroy did not win that trade?

I'm going to post this every 3 months for the next 3 years!! lol

To Calgary #Flames

Andrei Kuzmenko
Hunter Brzustewicz
Joni Jurmo
Matvei Gridin
Luke Misa
Eric Jamieson

To Vancouver #Canucks

11 goals 11 assists

hahahahahahahahaha

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Someone giving Conroy a 'B' for that Lindholm trade is actually kinda hilarious.

5 young, good assets and Kuzmenko just wasn't enough for an A, huh?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Someone giving Conroy a 'B' for that Lindholm trade is actually kinda hilarious.

5 young, good assets and Kuzmenko just wasn't enough for an A, huh?

Someone on here gave the Canucks an A for that trade...

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

In general, the league-wide media has viewed Conroy’s trades since his arrival poorly:

“Conroy, tough as his situation may be, has yet to win a trade” – Athletic

Markstrom Trade Grades: Athletic (D+, C-, B-), The Score (B+)
Hanifin Trade Grades: Athletic (C), CBS (B), The Score (B-)
Tanev Trade Grades: Athletic (D), The Score (D)
Lindholm Trade Grades: Athletic (B, B-), CBS (A-), The Score (B-)
Zadorov Trade Grades: Athletic (C, C-)
Toffoli Trade Grades: Athletic (C), Hockey Writers (C+)

_______

Its still early, but contrary to the media’s opinion, Conroy has shown an ability to identify undervalued assets and make strong draft picks. Of note, he has acquired:

-Sharongovich (31G scorer, can play all three forwards positions)
-Miromanov (large RD who scored at a 28 pt pace and had great defensive metrics
-Kuzmenko (offensive winger who scored at a 35G pace)
-Solid prospects: a top ranked RD prospect (Brz) who looks poised to make the NHL in 1-2 seasons, a solid LD (Grush) who looks poised to be in the NHL in the next year, and a long term D prospect (Jurmo)
-Picks that he has used to draft a trio of winger prospects (Gridin, Suniev, & Battaglia, who is ripping up the OHL to start the season), and a goalie prospect (Zarubin)
-2025 1st & 2nd, 2026 1st & 3rd

_________

Sharongovich, Miromanov & Kuzmenko were in the press box when they were acquired and are all positive contributors. Brz, Gridin, Suniev, Battaglia & Grushnikov all appear to have NHL upside.

Conroy is showing that he has a real eye for talent, notably affordable talent that other teams don’t value. While the Flames are currently lacking star power, we have so much depth that we can’t fit it all on the team. This bodes well for the future as I believe Conroy, once/if he can acquire some star power, will have no problem surrounding them with quality assets on a regular basis (the Carolina model?).

So while the rest of the league projects him as a GM who makes garbage trades, remember one team’s trash is another’s treasure.

Cheers to our garbage man!

It's pretty easy to be critical with hour one reaction when revisiting trades, so to be fair, here's how I'd have rated each trade at the time it was made and currently (in order of the trade as that certainly coloured my opinion):

Toffoli Trade Grade at the time: D
This seemed horribly bad at the time and it felt like Conroy rushed it to take whatever he could get so they wouldn't have to start the season with Toffoli, who was the Flames leading scorer and certainly should have had more value in my eyes at the time... I thought it set a tone for "nice guy" Conroy being his first trade and that teams would take advantage of during his tenure, which was super important seeing that he was coming in when the team needed to rebuild. I was wrong on Sharangovich.
Current trade grade A.

Zadorov Trade Grade at the time: D
I know the player was disgruntled, but most of the vets on the team were disgruntled at this point of the season. Conroy just likely wanted to get rid of him at this point so took whatever was offered. I don't like the value, and feel he certainly could have gotten more if he waited until the deadline. I get that losing the internal and external distraction has some value, but last year was a write off anyway, so why rush that trade.
Current trade grade D.

Lindholm Trade Grade: A
And then he totally redeemed himself. What a haul. Speaks for itself for how mediocre Lindholm had been and to get all of that back. I liked that he traded within the division too as it reversed the Toffoli perspective and sent a bit of a message to the rest of the league that Conroy is purely looking for the biggest return.
Current trade grade A.

Tanev Trade Grade: C-
I felt Conroy could have gotten more if he waited another week until the trade deadline. There were more teams in on Tanev and it felt like the offers would have gone up for a playoff warrior like him. It felt like Conroy was under pressure to clear out Tanev so he could focus on Hanifin -- so he just took a combination best offer/best location for Tanev. I also didn't like the Grushnikov being the main piece at the time...
Current trade grade (Grushnikov has grown on me a bit): C+

Hanifin Trade Grades: B
This one was tough. I felt Hanifin should have returned more than an older defenceman and what will likely be a later first round pick, but with the way it looked like the agent was screwing around behind the scene, it felt better to see him go to Vegas over Tampa and meant to me that Calgary did extract more value out of the deal by going that direction. I felt like Hanifin should have returned more but this was a decent return in the context.
Current trade grade (Miromanov has grown on me): B+

Markstrom Trade Grades: B-
That Conroy got a solid defender and a first rounder after the trade deadline circus and the behind the scenes funny business was really big. I still thought New Jersey would have offered more if Conroy played chicken for another couple of days, as Markstrom was the obvious guy they wanted, but there was a big risk to that. Getting a first and a solid defender for an older goalie is huge.
Current trade grade (I bumped up as the return is solid in the context, and the risk of getting less if they held out is real... particularly with the Ulmark return): B+

[RedHawk12]

The only trade Conroy has objectively won, from a purely "quality of assets returned" POV, is the Lindholm trade.

All other trades where we feel Conroy has done well, has to be assessed circumstantially, taking into account that we are rebuilding and do not need aging vets as much as picks/prospects. And the thing with media assessments of trades is that media doesn't take into account circumstances of the team when assessing trade grades. They only look at quality of assets in/quality of assets out.

Take the Toffoli trade for example. Perennial 20-goal scorer Toffoli for 13-goal scorer, playoff healthy-scratch Sharangovich is not a good trade, objectively speaking, for us. It's only a decent trade when you consider that Toffoli is a pending UFA, unlikely to re-sign, playing for a team not expected to make the playoffs (and is therefore not of any value to us) and Sharagovich is younger, under team control, and has room to grow.

Look at the Markstrom trade. One of the few true bona-fide starting goalies in the league (not a time-share goalie) for a likely low 1st round pick and a current bottom-pairing D with low offensive upside is, objectively, a win for NJ. Only when you consider the circumstances - that we are rebuilding and have no use for a 35 year old goalie, that we get a 1st which is invaluable for a rebuilding team - that it seems like a good trade for us too.

The truth is, these assessments are fairly useless. Only time will tell if we did well. All trades for rentals are a waste if the trade doesn't help the team to a long playoff run. Any trade for picks and prospects cannot be considered a win until those picks are turned into players. It's way too early to tell for any of these trades, one way or the other.

The only exception I would say is Lindholm. That trade was a steal from day 1.

[Locke]

Find the Treasure Craig!!

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think he hit most trades out of the park, and nobody has brought up the fact that he was severely hamstrung in some of them.


The whole Markstrom thing - he still didn't flinch at what he thought was a bad deal at the trade deadline, and held firm. The return was the highest for a goalie even close to his age (and Markstrom is no spring chicken).

Zadorov 'surprising' him with a trade request in Toronto's media environment.


Hanifin picking and choosing which club he gets to go to.


Lindholm looking absolutely terrible as a Flame since Gaudreau and Tkachuk left.


Trying to unload Toffolli in a tough cap market where almost no trades happened.


If you look at his body of work, it was enormous, and he managed to get decent returns on all of them, all under pressure, and many with baggage. He is such a god damn rock star, that the Rolling Stones called him for tips on how to be better rock stars.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Hanifin scummy agent tried to sabotage the trade but he actually didn’t end up in Tampa.

Luckily it was Vegas that we dealt with since they have balls and probably didn’t care about the agents demands. Plus I think his son is a prospect on the team.