[Signing] Wings sign Seider (7yrs, $8.55 mil AAV)

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Well this is probably the absolute upper limit for Andersson’s next contract at least.

The contracts are really not comparable, as Andersson’s deal will cover all UFA years of a player who will decline during his contract bs. A very young player who will presumably get better, but only covers 3vUFA years.

But I expect you are correct, Anderson won’t be making more unless it’s a much shorter deal.

[Kipper_3434]

Love this deal, love the player, hopefully he has a down season and becomes available for the flames. Would compliment our skilled defence nicely.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Love this deal, love the player, hopefully he has a down season and becomes available for the flames. Would compliment our skilled defence nicely.

He has a 10 team NTC. The Flames will definitely be on it.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Ped

By looking at his track record.

In Tampa:
2010 (although he had just been hired) 3rd round pick Gudas was in the NHL 3 seasons later
2011: Kucherov in the NHL 3 seasons later
7th round Palat 2 seasons later
2012: 4th round pick Paquette full-time in NHL 3 seasons later.
2014: Point in the NHL 3 seasons later
2015: Cirelli in the NHL 3 seasons later
4th rounder Mathieu Joseph 4 seasons later

Meanwhile with Detroit:
2018 (Not really his draft) Berggren after the 1st round only NHLer, and he only played 12 games last year, and 53 in the AHL
2019: Only Soderblom after the 1st round has played NHL games (21)
2020: No one after the 1st round has even played NHL games. Wallinder and maybe Viro the only possibilities, I think
2021: no one after the 1st round has played NHL games, although a few are still prospects (Cossa, Mazur, Buium)
2022-2024 - still too early, but how many are trending well? Anton Johansson? Trey Augustine?

Kind of a strange way to look at it by saying that since so far players haven't played in the exact timeframe as his previous team means we can make a definitive statement so early. His early first round picks at the beginning part of his TB tenure were Drouin,Koekkoek, and Connelly, does this mean he is doing a much better job in Detroit?

[Ped]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Kind of a strange way to look at it by saying that since so far players haven't played in the exact timeframe as his previous team means we can make a definitive statement so early. His early first round picks at the beginning part of his TB tenure were Drouin,Koekkoek, and Connelly, does this mean he is doing a much better job in Detroit?

Okay. Do any of his post 1st-round Detroit picks right now look like they could possibly have the impact of Kucherov, Palat, Point, or Cirelli? Obviously the answer is no, because otherwise this wouldn't even be a discussion.


You said they haven't had enough time to make an impact. I said comparatively to his TB days, they certainly don't appear to be trending that way, although I guess William Wallinder, could be the next Victor Hedman.


I said he hadn't hit on his late picks. And he hasn't. Could some of them turn into something? Sure, I guess. Does it look at all likely? The entire point was, that a huge part of TB's success was hitting on those later picks that turned into, in some cases, elite NHL talent.


In Detroit - thus far - he hasn't, and I don't think you'll find too many people that would argue otherwise.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Ped

Okay. Do any of his post 1st-round Detroit picks right now look like they could possibly have the impact of Kucherov, Palat, Point, or Cirelli? Obviously the answer is no, because otherwise this wouldn't even be a discussion.


You said they haven't had enough time to make an impact. I said comparatively to his TB days, they certainly don't appear to be trending that way, although I guess William Wallinder, could be the next Victor Hedman.


I said he hadn't hit on his late picks. And he hasn't. Could some of them turn into something? Sure, I guess. Does it look at all likely? The entire point was, that a huge part of TB's success was hitting on those later picks that turned into, in some cases, elite NHL talent.


In Detroit - thus far - he hasn't, and I don't think you'll find too many people that would argue otherwise.

So if he doesn't draft as many stars post 1st round as he did in TB that means his drafting hasn't been good? I don't think that's a fair standard. The fact the he got Seider/Raymond outside the top 3 and looks to have solid picks in Danielson/Kasper/Cossa I am not sure how one can say the drafting hasn't been very good thus far.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

So if he doesn't draft as many stars post 1st round as he did in TB that means his drafting hasn't been good? I don't think that's a fair standard. The fact the he got Seider/Raymond outside the top 3 and looks to have solid picks in Danielson/Kasper/Cossa I am not sure how one can say the drafting hasn't been very good thus far.

He got 3 elite guys in Kucherov/Hedman/Point in Tampa. I just don't see the comparable players in Detroit.

I like Raymond, I'm not sure he's a top 10 scorer like Kucherov. Seider is still a way from Hedman at the same age, and they don't appear at the moment to have a third high end guy who was drafted.

Yzerman definitely had better high end guys in Tampa. He didn't find them in Detroit IMO. They look primed to be a bubble team, not a contender going forward.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

He got 3 elite guys in Kucherov/Hedman/Point in Tampa. I just don't see the comparable players in Detroit.

I like Raymond, I'm not sure he's a top 10 scorer like Kucherov. Seider is still a way from Hedman at the same age, and they don't appear at the moment to have a third high end guy who was drafted.

Yzerman definitely had better high end guys in Tampa. He didn't find them in Detroit IMO. They look primed to be a bubble team, not a contender going forward.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

He didn't draft Hedman. I agree he doesn't have the top end talent like he did in TB, but who was drafted after Seider/Raymond that is like those players in TB? You can only pick from what's available.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

So if he doesn't draft as many stars post 1st round as he did in TB that means his drafting hasn't been good? I don't think that's a fair standard. The fact the he got Seider/Raymond outside the top 3 and looks to have solid picks in Danielson/Kasper/Cossa I am not sure how one can say the drafting hasn't been very good thus far.

If you want to claim it hasn't been long enough to state they haven't hit on late-round picks, then you certainly can't claim he's very good because of 3 guys that have played 1 NHL game between them. They look good, but as with all prospects, time will tell.


But you need to hit on later round picks to be considered very good or great at drafting, imo. Hitting on top-10 picks merely means you aren't terrible.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

This contract seems fine, but Yzerman has been in place for over 5 years now.... and his work in Detroit probably has to be some of the most unimpressive work around the NHL.

Since joining the Red Wings as GM in in April of 2019:

2019 6th Overall: Moritz Seider
2020 4th Overall: Lucas Raymond
2020 32nd Overall: William Wallinder
2021 6th Overall: Simon Edvinsson
2021 15th Overall: Sebastian Cossa
2022 8th Overall:: Marco Kasper
2023 9th Overall: Nate Danielson
2023 17th Overall: Aex Sandin-Pellika
2024 15th Overall: Michael Brandsegg-Nygard

This is why the Flames need to bottom. This is what you get when you don't bottom out. Does anyone look at those 5 bad years of Red Wings hockey and think they're rounding the corner to true contender level?

Kasper and Danielson are his centres.
Seider, Edvinsson, Wallinder, Sandin-Pellika are his defence.
Raymond, Brandsegg-Nygard are his wingers.
Cossa is his goalie.

I don't see a championship foundation in there.

If you draft 6, 4, 6, you have bottomed out, you just have horrible luck. Competing into the top 3 is a legit challenge. If people are going into this rebuild thinking we are drafting Malkin, Fleury, Crosby, they are going to be disappointed. The Oilers rules have more or less ensured no team rebuilds the Pens or Oilers (attempted) did.

Raymond, Seider, Debrincat, Wallinder, is actually a pretty solid group. The Wings, like any other rebuilding team, need positive surprises from their depth.

People are talking about Tampa, but Kucherov was 58th overall and Point was 79th.

Nothing is a guarantee during a rebuild.

[1991 Canadian]

Originally Posted by Ped

Disagree. As someone else pointed out (Sandman?) they have almost no hits after the 1st round, which is where teams need to hit to be successful.

100 percent. It is so important in today's NHL to have value added picks in the later rounds. People usually point towards goaltending, coaches, GM trades, etc... as the big sources of failure... but I honestly think poor later round drafting has the biggest impact.

I didn't realize how much of dead zone the Wings later round drafting has become. Its only fair. They were the franchise that was notorious for picking players like Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc... out of their rear ends for years. They deserve mediocrity.

In the last 10 years, the lone later round value pick that stands out to me is Filip Hronek. They traded him for a 1st (17th overall) and a 2nd round pick. Not terrible value, but I'd make that trade 10 times out of 10 if I'm the Canucks.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Love this deal, love the player, hopefully he has a down season and becomes available for the flames. Would compliment our skilled defence nicely.

Dream big.