I’m happy enough to just say top 5 without splitting hairs. Fleury’s tenacity and aggressive style helped amplified his talent, just like Johnny’s vision and creativity amplified his. Then you have someone like Nilsson who may have been one of the most skilled players to ever play in the NHL, but his lackadaisical approach often left people wanting more.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 09-15-2024 at 04:58 PM.
No doubt Makarov was a talent but as a Flame he was not more talented than Gaudreau, we could argue all day but for pure skill only Nilsson had more.
That's fair enough, if it was only wearing a Flames jersey, and anything else was put aside. I might still say nilsson then fleury, followed by gaudreau.
If the question was just skill without duration of time on the team, I'd also add jagr and hull.
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I might still say makarov, he was unreal in what he could do, and had some really solid seasons, even as an old man floating. So, at best Johnny is 3rd, and at worst 4 to 7th. Incredible player.
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I'm surprised people think Fleury was more talented. I'd rank Gaudreau above him. Personally I think he's #2 or #1 depending on your opinion of Nilsson.
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I'm surprised people think Fleury was more talented. I'd rank Gaudreau above him. Personally I think he's #2 or #1 depending on your opinion of Nilsson.
For most of his Flame career (after the Cup win) Fleury had no one notable to play with.
There was no Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, etc. That’s why he’s more impressive to me.
Johnny did something special that only kipper did for me. He made the game worth watching almost every time. Iggy had too many nights where I didn’t notice him, especially towards the end of his time here. Kipper played hard every game. Johnny was fun to watch and could change the pace, almost every night Lanny is such a special part of this city.
I'm surprised people think Fleury was more talented. I'd rank Gaudreau above him. Personally I think he's #2 or #1 depending on your opinion of Nilsson.
Fleury is the most talented Flame I ever saw play imo.
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Johnny did something special that only kipper did for me. He made the game worth watching almost every time. Iggy had too many nights where I didn’t notice him, especially towards the end of his time here. Kipper played hard every game. Johnny was fun to watch and could change the pace, almost every night Lanny is such a special part of this city.
The Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Makarov line was the most must-watch Flames period for me.
That said, I took my soccer playing kids to a Flames game in Carolina 5-10 years ago and my older son who knew nothing of hockey said this game is only exciting when #13 is on the ice and asked "Is he the Messi of hockey?".
Last edited by nfotiu; 09-15-2024 at 07:59 PM.
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Johnny did something special that only kipper did for me. He made the game worth watching almost every time. Iggy had too many nights where I didn’t notice him, especially towards the end of his time here. Kipper played hard every game. Johnny was fun to watch and could change the pace, almost every night Lanny is such a special part of this city.
With all due respect Lanny was not even top 10 talent. He is a for sure #1 in everyone’s heart and had a nice shot but there were plenty with more hockey talent
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With all due respect Lanny was not even top 10 talent. He is a for sure #1 in everyone’s heart and had a nice shot but there were plenty with more hockey talent
He scored 66 facking goals in one season
with all due respect I am guessing you only saw his final season or two
I think Talent is a weird word to use. It seems always to be used to give little players credit. Iginla is the most talented flame he used is power and size effectively against other players. That is as much of a talent as skating or handling.
In the sense of the question being asked where we pretend that “talent” is earned and size is just genetic. Then I go Fleury as number 1. I can’t comment on Makarov and Neilson as I was too young so Gaudreau is two.
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I think people have a different interpretation of talent. I think talent comes in many forms. Lanny and Iginla were goal scoring phenoms that impacted the game in many different ways (and both did it on and off the ice). How do you compare that to MacInnis? Kiprusoff and Vernon were both incredibly skilled too, but how do you compare that to forwards and defencemen, and try and rank it?
Categories (and players are not in particular order):
Best player with puck on his stick: Gaudreau, Nilsson, Loob, Makarov
Best Power-forward: Iginla, Lanny, Roberts
Best Centre: Nieuwendyk, Gilmour
Best offensive defencemen: MacInnis, Suter
Best defensive defencemen: Macoun, Regehr,
Best two-way defencmen: McCrimmon
Best playmaker... best goal scorer... toughest guy
... and so on.
It will be an easier argument to just talk about Gretzky vs Lemieux. That's never going to be solved. Why? So many factors go into these two wildly different players.
Lanny was an amazing talent. People forget how good he was - or they were simply too young, or were just old enough to catch the tail end of his career when he won the cup. Lanny is right up there for talent with Iginla. I would say that Lanny, Iginla and Roberts were the most like players - rough and tumble, can fight, powerforwards who scored well. Certainly Roberts was behind those two greats of course, but definitely #3 in Flames history.
Gaudreau as a 'puck on your stick playmaker/dispy-doodler/high-skill type' - he is top 4 for me all-time. He really belongs in the same category with Makarov, Loob and Nilsson. Makarov was Russian Gretzky. Loob IS (still currently is!) the only Swedish player to score 50, and he was evasive. Nilsson - The Magic Man. Calls a ring of the post from centre on 2&7 TV, and hits it on his first try. The "Forsberg" is so annoying - It should be "The Magic Man" as Nilsson did it years before Forsberg even thought about it.
Then there are the curve-balls. One of the greatest goal scorer in NHL history started his career here, and the 2nd highest point producer (and one of my all-time favourite players to watch) finished his career here. How should they be considered? That's up to you to decide - impact as a Flame? Moments as a Flame? Highest in his career? Etc.
If you aren't really going to consider longevity, then players like Tanguay - or especially Juice (Huselius) should be considered as 'top-skilled guys'. Tanguay was here for 5 seasons spread over 2 stints. Juice was here for 2.5 seasons. Marc Savard?
Savard was here for 4 seasons (well, 3 and a bit before being dealt) and Makarov was here for 4. Are those ~70 games the difference between being considered an all-time Flame, and not? Was it because Makarov was Russian Gretzky, and he came over when he was already well into the downswing of his career? Well, then if that doesn't matter, why isn't Jagr at the top of your list then?
These are all individual opinions. The only way to remove bias, is to look at their points as Flames and go off of that. However, in my opinion, that doesn't take into account exactly what type of player they were, and exactly the contributed, what their strengths and weaknesses were, and how exciting they were to watch and what emotional attachment that fans actually felt for these players.
Personally, Gaudreau is a health 'top 10' franchise player for Calgary. As the 'dipsy-doodle wizard', easily in the top 5, and probably in the top 3 for me. Consistently? He gets my 1st place vote. I think both Makarov and Nilsson were more slick and skilled, but Gaudreau was more competitive, and thus he was more 'electric' more nights. He gets my vote for my own self-made category.
Still leaves out a lot of players too. Talent? What about the least appreciated Flame (in my opinion) who had his best years in Calgary, was a huge contributor to winning the cup, and is in the Hockey Hall of Fame? Joey Mullen has to be right up there for most talented Flame ever. I wouldn't say he was 'electric' though, so it is so hard to compare. Mullen has to be in the top 10 easily.
Here is another way to look at it. Name your top line (and it has to be by position). My all-time Flames line is:
Gaudreau - Nieuwendyk - Iginla (though Lanny's 66 goal season is tempting!)
There wasn't a better left wing. I am a huge Gary Roberts fan and he was always one of my favourite Flames. I think Roberts would be the next best LW. Would prime Jagr push Iginla out? Well, of course he would, and probably prime Makarov too, but we in Calgary didn't get to see those primes in a Flames jersey, so for me, that's my all-time top line. Anyone have it differently? I can't make a single argument as to why Johnny isn't the most talented left wing in the history of the Calgary Flames, and one of the franchise's true greats.
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In terms of stardom and legacy (i.e. not raw talent) while he was on the Flames, I'd comfortably say that Gaudreau is the 6th to 8th greatest Flame of all-time.
It's hard to put him in the top 5 ahead of the following:
1. Iginla
2. MacInnis
3. MacDonald
4. Fleury
5. Nilsson
Assuming spots 6-15 are filled with players like Mullen, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Loob, Suter, Lemelin, Vernon, Makarov, and Gio.
Assuming spots 16-25 are filled with players like McCrimmon, Phaneuf, Gilmour, Tkachuk, Regehr, and Hamilton.
Gaudreau might very well be the second most talented Flame of all-time (next to Nilsson) in terms of raw talent, but his impact on the game didn't necessarily live up to his talent level. If you put his resume from his time with the Flames next to Joe Mullen's for a blind test, it would be a very intense debate about which player is better.
