[News] Flames promote Kerry Huffman to Director of Hockey Strategy

[getbak]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

They certainly look like nerds, but any way to see their actual credentials?

Google them. They're all on LinkedIn.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

They certainly look like nerds, but any way to see their actual credentials?

Charron worked in finance.
Rankin played in the WHL and transitioned into the video gig while playing in university.
Hanes worked in the OHL.
Robson worked in the OHL and with the Blue Jays.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Hahaha what? I wasn't being sarcastic...wouldn't he have contributed to any trades during that window as the Director of Pro Scouting?

Come on now...you were trying to blame him for the Penguins poor moves like a scout has that much pull. Especially with a post apex team with massive stars like that one. I bet he was pounding his fist on the table demanding EK.

[activeStick]

Haha I honestly wasn't though! But anyways...

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Charron worked in finance.
Rankin played in the WHL and transitioned into the video gig while playing in university.
Hanes worked in the OHL.
Robson worked in the OHL and with the Blue Jays.

Do any of them actually have a statistics degree?

I’m not joining LinkedIn just to look this up, sorry getbak.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Haha I honestly wasn't though! But anyways...

alright, Penguins made some terrible moves but obviously he wasn't the guy in charge...my mistake if you weren't trying to dump on this because of that

[Naitix]

On the topic of Data/Analytics department. It is very shocking to me how small the department is compared to how little of a financial investment it is. Only two of them have coding/software development experience and I know they get paid very little compared to the industry standard, it is obviously seen as a passion job. From what I heard it should be around 60k + you work random unpaid overtime due to the nature of the job.

There are many very talented people out there that would not even consider working in such conditions. I do not see a reason why Flames should not actually pay a competitive wage and have an actual decently sized developer team. For example, I would love to work for the Flames and contribute to my favorite team but the pay + working conditions are a major turnoff.

You could easily hire 4-5 additional developers, pay them 100k+, have them working standard hours and your investment into Data/Analytics department employees is around the same price of a 4th line grinder that might get waived

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Naitix

On the topic of Data/Analytics department. It is very shocking to me how small the department is compared to how little of a financial investment it is. Only two of them have coding/software development experience and I know they get paid very little compared to the industry standard, it is obviously seen as a passion job. From what I heard it should be around 60k + you work random unpaid overtime due to the nature of the job.

There are many very talented people out there that would not even consider working in such conditions. I do not see a reason why Flames should not actually pay a competitive wage and have an actual decently sized developer team. For example, I would love to work for the Flames and contribute to my favorite team but the pay + working conditions are a major turnoff.

You could easily hire 4-5 additional developers, pay them 100k+, have them working standard hours and your investment into Data/Analytics department employees is around the same price of a 4th line grinder that might get waived

Maybe controversial, but I think the Flames should target someone like Byron Bader. He is local and knows the market, has the educational background, and has experience. I don't know, maybe he can make more money doing it by offering his services as an independent. I wasn't sold at first, but looking at his history of predicting outcomes, I have become a believer in his model. No one and no model will ever predict things perfectly, but he seems to get a lot right. Like I said, I don't know how lucrative his Hockey Prospecting business is, but I could see him working for an NHL team one day.

[Radio]

Don't need a degree anymore, just need to learn how to use AI. All praise to our machine overlords.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Radio

Don't need a degree anymore, just need to learn how to use AI. All praise to our machine overlords.

"#3 in your programs, #1 in your hearts, starting on Defence for YOUR Calgary Flaaaaaaaaaaames!!!"

Spoiler!

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think that the Flames should model themselves after some football clubs in Europe.


Teams like Benfica in Portugal simply can't compete with teams in England, Spain, etc. They can't afford the salaries that those places have. So how does Benfica stay relatively competitive? They spend their money everywhere else. They have a lot of scouts and do a great job at finding young talent that has been overlooked. Then they develop that talent, and make their money on the transfer market (link). They get to have a (relatively) competitive team, and the team doesn't bleed money either. One of the best development teams in the world. They invest heavily in that area - analytics, scouting, conditioning, and even coaches in Portugal must finish a degree in coaching apparently (I don't think there is a coaching degree in North America) so that they can best reach their players without going into the abusive realm. Players end up enjoying playing there, the team makes good money, and though they are not ever thought of as being a top-end club, they punch above their weight often (as do the other two main clubs in Portugal). Scotland is pivoting apparently and are going to start employing (or at least attempting to employ) the Portuguese model as they are in a similar circumstance - they can't compete with the other leagues in Europe financially.



It may seem irrelevant because of the salary cap that the NHL has, but it does become relevant when you factor in the location. As more big US based teams enter the NHL, the more options this gives players. Top players will want to play in top destinations.


Calgary is a team that I consider to be one of the better drafting and development teams in the league, but there still is a lot of room for improvement. The pro-scouting side of things has been a mixed bag - some good players have been acquired through trades and UFA signings, some have been disasters. This tells me that the analytics that Calgary has just isn't there yet, so whenever I see Calgary spending more in that area, I think it is a really good thing.


Calgary needs to find players at the amateur level and focus on their growth. Then they need to find under-utilized players - players that are down in the depth charts, or players that don't fit a certain style of game or system that suits them, but would in Calgary's. I mean, 'of course' they should, right? I am sure that they do try. There are just too many mistakes, and no matter how hard you do try there will still be mistakes made. However, the more robust you make the 'talent department' (amateur and pro scouting, conditioning, coaching, analytics), the more better players you will find.



There is one truth here - Calgary is a small market Canadian team that, in a world of further expansion, will result in less players preferring to play here. Teams like Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton (yuck), and Ottawa are all in the same boat. They have to figure out an edge, and I think taking a look at how other teams in other leagues that are under similar (though probably not the same) circumstances and disadvantages manage to compete.


I think there are a couple of truths when it comes to Calgary right now. It is easier for Calgary to convince players to stay who have grown up in Calgary (not Calgary-born, but that certainly helps too!). Players who are drafted and come up through the system are more likely to prefer playing here than trying to find them as mercenaries. If every player in the NHL in this 32 (soon to be 34) team league can find similar salary and opportunity elsewhere, why choose Calgary? The Flames need to figure out how to make the players and their families more supported and a part of everything. Organize more events, make people feel more special being here. Something. For the young players (and assistant coaches as well) I would love for them to adopt a sort of 'academy' mindset. Obviously it will never be the same thing as football (and shouldn't be), but to really crank up the notion of professional and personal development as much as possible. Start growing coaches in-house - the AHL team is great for that. As I said, Flames are a good development organization, but there is room to do more.



This is going off on a bit of a tangent, I know. Analytics is becoming an ever more important ingredient of success, and I hope that the team makes further investments into analytics, as well as into scouting, coaching, conditioning, and any other area that gives them a bit of an advantage. A bit of a long-winded and convoluted post, but just something that I have been thinking about.

[Reggie Dunlop]

It's generally a good idea for your Hockey Operations dept. to be staffed with hockey people.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Naitix

On the topic of Data/Analytics department. It is very shocking to me how small the department is compared to how little of a financial investment it is. Only two of them have coding/software development experience and I know they get paid very little compared to the industry standard, it is obviously seen as a passion job. From what I heard it should be around 60k + you work random unpaid overtime due to the nature of the job.

There are many very talented people out there that would not even consider working in such conditions. I do not see a reason why Flames should not actually pay a competitive wage and have an actual decently sized developer team. For example, I would love to work for the Flames and contribute to my favorite team but the pay + working conditions are a major turnoff.

You could easily hire 4-5 additional developers, pay them 100k+, have them working standard hours and your investment into Data/Analytics department employees is around the same price of a 4th line grinder that might get waived

The Flames are a low cost operator designed to break even while the rising tide of NHL franchises gives the ownership capital growth. That is their model. The fact we have an analytics team at all shows how essential they must be to everyday hockey operations of other teams for us to assign FTE to it.

[Geeoff]

I'd be ok if the Flames made a Lindros trade

[King Theo]

Originally Posted by Svartsengi

Peter Forsberg was a prospect included in that trade. I would have rather had Forsberg on my team than Lindros not to mention all the other assets traded to Quebec/Colorado. That trade helped Colorado win Stanley Cups in 1996 and 2001. Beware putting too much stock in analytics.

I would have to say in their primes both Lindros and Forsberg amazing, but I think Lindros was a more dominate player, however he was often injured because of his style. Forsberg without a doubt had a much better career.

[emti]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Maybe controversial, but I think the Flames should target someone like Byron Bader. He is local and knows the market, has the educational background, and has experience. I don't know, maybe he can make more money doing it by offering his services as an independent. I wasn't sold at first, but looking at his history of predicting outcomes, I have become a believer in his model. No one and know model will ever predict things perfectly, but he seems to get a lot right. Like I said, I don't know how lucrative his Hockey Prospecting business is, but I could see him working for an NHL team one day.

I also follow Byron and am a fan of his model. His LinkedIn shows he was a Draft Consultant with the Flames back in 2019 and then went on to start his real baby, hockeyprospecting.com which is where he does most of his twitter/x work. LinkedIn also shows he's worked for Fortis Alberta in a data role for the last 7 years, so I bet he makes a heck of a lot more coin with Fortis than he ever would with the flames unless he managed to get a head/management role.

I don't know the backstory of his 2019 tenure with the Flames but maybe things didn't go as planned for either side? Either way, he is a great follow on twitter/x for hockey analytics!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by emti

I also follow Byron and am a fan of his model. His LinkedIn shows he was a Draft Consultant with the Flames back in 2019 and then went on to start his real baby, hockeyprospecting.com which is where he does most of his twitter/x work. LinkedIn also shows he's worked for Fortis Alberta in a data role for the last 7 years, so I bet he makes a heck of a lot more coin with Fortis than he ever would with the flames unless he managed to get a head/management role.

I don't know the backstory of his 2019 tenure with the Flames but maybe things didn't go as planned for either side? Either way, he is a great follow on twitter/x for hockey analytics!

Cool. I just looked and saw I attended ULeth the same years he did. In fact, I took 2 stats courses as part of the program I was in, so we may have crossed paths.

He seems pretty balanced when he talks about the Flames. Really loved the last draft and when asked about about the Flames and their use of analytics, he was pretty complementary about the Flames accepting the innovation. I imagine it's a case of being able to make more money doing other things.

[sureLoss]

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/huff...nt-office-role

“I’ve always had an interest, there’s so much information that the analytics department can present to the hockey people, and coming up with something that makes sense where all the departments can talk to each other, and utilize the information to make the best decisions,” Huffman explained when reached by phone Wednesday afternoon. “We talked about it for quite a bit this year, (Flames General Manager Craig Conroy) and the senior management group, and that’s an area where we have great people who are in the analytics department, and I feel like there is an opportunity to utilize my hockey experience with the analytics department to perfect the message throughout hockey operations.”

[Number 39]

Originally Posted by emti

I also follow Byron and am a fan of his model. His LinkedIn shows he was a Draft Consultant with the Flames back in 2019 and then went on to start his real baby, hockeyprospecting.com which is where he does most of his twitter/x work. LinkedIn also shows he's worked for Fortis Alberta in a data role for the last 7 years, so I bet he makes a heck of a lot more coin with Fortis than he ever would with the flames unless he managed to get a head/management role.

I don't know the backstory of his 2019 tenure with the Flames but maybe things didn't go as planned for either side? Either way, he is a great follow on twitter/x for hockey analytics!

If you listen to the “In the Dome” podcast he was a guest on their July 13th show and he shared his thoughts on the recent draft and touched very briefly on the 2019 engagement with the Flames.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think that the Flames should model themselves after some football clubs in Europe.


Teams like Benfica in Portugal simply can't compete with teams in England, Spain, etc. They can't afford the salaries that those places have. So how does Benfica stay relatively competitive? They spend their money everywhere else. They have a lot of scouts and do a great job at finding young talent that has been overlooked. Then they develop that talent, and make their money on the transfer market (link). They get to have a (relatively) competitive team, and the team doesn't bleed money either. One of the best development teams in the world. They invest heavily in that area - analytics, scouting, conditioning, and even coaches in Portugal must finish a degree in coaching apparently (I don't think there is a coaching degree in North America) so that they can best reach their players without going into the abusive realm. Players end up enjoying playing there, the team makes good money, and though they are not ever thought of as being a top-end club, they punch above their weight often (as do the other two main clubs in Portugal). Scotland is pivoting apparently and are going to start employing (or at least attempting to employ) the Portuguese model as they are in a similar circumstance - they can't compete with the other leagues in Europe financially.



It may seem irrelevant because of the salary cap that the NHL has, but it does become relevant when you factor in the location. As more big US based teams enter the NHL, the more options this gives players. Top players will want to play in top destinations.


Calgary is a team that I consider to be one of the better drafting and development teams in the league, but there still is a lot of room for improvement. The pro-scouting side of things has been a mixed bag - some good players have been acquired through trades and UFA signings, some have been disasters. This tells me that the analytics that Calgary has just isn't there yet, so whenever I see Calgary spending more in that area, I think it is a really good thing.


Calgary needs to find players at the amateur level and focus on their growth. Then they need to find under-utilized players - players that are down in the depth charts, or players that don't fit a certain style of game or system that suits them, but would in Calgary's. I mean, 'of course' they should, right? I am sure that they do try. There are just too many mistakes, and no matter how hard you do try there will still be mistakes made. However, the more robust you make the 'talent department' (amateur and pro scouting, conditioning, coaching, analytics), the more better players you will find.



There is one truth here - Calgary is a small market Canadian team that, in a world of further expansion, will result in less players preferring to play here. Teams like Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton (yuck), and Ottawa are all in the same boat. They have to figure out an edge, and I think taking a look at how other teams in other leagues that are under similar (though probably not the same) circumstances and disadvantages manage to compete.


I think there are a couple of truths when it comes to Calgary right now. It is easier for Calgary to convince players to stay who have grown up in Calgary (not Calgary-born, but that certainly helps too!). Players who are drafted and come up through the system are more likely to prefer playing here than trying to find them as mercenaries. If every player in the NHL in this 32 (soon to be 34) team league can find similar salary and opportunity elsewhere, why choose Calgary? The Flames need to figure out how to make the players and their families more supported and a part of everything. Organize more events, make people feel more special being here. Something. For the young players (and assistant coaches as well) I would love for them to adopt a sort of 'academy' mindset. Obviously it will never be the same thing as football (and shouldn't be), but to really crank up the notion of professional and personal development as much as possible. Start growing coaches in-house - the AHL team is great for that. As I said, Flames are a good development organization, but there is room to do more.



This is going off on a bit of a tangent, I know. Analytics is becoming an ever more important ingredient of success, and I hope that the team makes further investments into analytics, as well as into scouting, coaching, conditioning, and any other area that gives them a bit of an advantage. A bit of a long-winded and convoluted post, but just something that I have been thinking about.

Hockey teams already do this fwiw. But more importantly, big issue here is that the model to make profit in European football includes player sales and it can be significant. You can’t sell players in the NHL so there’s no incentive to remain a feeder club for ‘larger’ teams.