2023/24 Average NHL Attendance

[Monahammer]

Also, IMO this had nothing to do with team quality. I actually don't see that link historically across any market in the cap era, and winnipeg is actually currently showing the exact opposite. Our ownership and management base a lot of decisions off of this idea, but IMO team quality is secondary to ticket price and available free cash in population- things totally out of control of the NHL. People will attend a game even if the team sucks if they want a night out, when they have the funds. Honestly, the young guns era and the time right before iggy was when i probably went to the most games personally lol.

The opposite is true though- people will go out of their way to see a superstar play. And that is why drafting high is absolutely important. I would bet Edmonton has similar attendance percentage to Winnipeg to lead the league.

[Sainters7]

After trying to go to the NYE game and finding the absolute cheapest tickets were $140 before tax for nosebleeds, for a team currently 25th in the league in points, this isn't surprising.

[Harry Lime]

Is Winnipeg and Buffalo pricing out most of their fanbase? I think that most Canadian teams have this problem, too. When the richies decide not to go, the regular folks still don't really have the option to take up that space.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

e.g.

Winnipeg population = ~841,000. Attendees= 12,566 = 1.49% attendance

vs

Calgary population = ~ 1,640,000 Attendees = 17,356 = 1.06% attendance

vs

Philadelphia population = ~ 5,821,000 attendees = 17,971 = 0.3% attendance

The Canadian markets are still dominating in terms of actual percentage of population attending and paying to watch games, they just have less people to tap into. This also makes it extremely difficult to envision Winnipeg for e.g. improving their situation substantially without the average Canadian suddenly becoming much more wealthy. You can tell the canadian economy is hurting as Montreal and Toronto aren't at or above 100%. No non-rich people can attend games anymore.

Anyways though, list is BS when teams like Arizona are ranked near the top. What a joke. I am not even sure what this list is meant to display. If it is about financial health of each franchise, wouldn't the terms of their loan (and asset depreciation if they own the buildings) need to be considered? e.g. not filling the saddledome has a much different impact than not filling rogers place. It doesn't really make sense to show the info this way unless you want to paint a dumb picture about southern NHL markets.

That’s kind of a silly way to look at it since no one is going to build a hockey arena with 150,000 seats just because they have a big city.

Also you can go to a game without being rich. I went to the Ducks/Flames game and got an $18 ticket. I routinely see Flames PL tickets for $10-$15 and second bowl for $30-$50. (USD)

[The Fisher Account]

90% is good and to be honest, that remaining 10% is likely PLS.

The seats are so cheap that they're a rounding error on the CSEC balance sheet. Also the reason that the new arena will definitely not have a 3rd level.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

After trying to go to the NYE game and finding the absolute cheapest tickets were $140 before tax for nosebleeds, for a team currently 25th in the league in points, this isn't surprising.

Was this the primary or secondary market?

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Was this the primary or secondary market?

Yeah secondary, but just a sign of where we're at these days when that's the cheapest option even at puck drop. I'm usually good at snagging those last minute deals since I'm walking distance and thus can do it on a whim, so that blew my mind.

[timun]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m not sure anyone framed it that way, it was just sorted by %.

Sorting it by attendance doesn’t change a ton for Calgary. Still bottom third.

Out of curiosity I rearranged the list by actual average attendance, added the difference between the two lists' rankings, and highlighted ones where they moved more than three positions up or down the list as compared:

1. MTL — +12
2. TBL — +4
3. DET — +17
4. CHI — +18
5. TOR — +7
6. CAR — -1
7. VAN — +9
8. MNS — -6
9. DAL — -2
10. FLA — +11
11. EDM — +7
12. VGK — -11
13. COL — -9
14. STL — 0
15. LAK — +2
16. NYR — -8
17. PHI — +8
18. PIT — +1
19. BOS — -10
20. OTT — +3
21. WSH — +3
22. CGY — +5
23. NSH — -20
24. SEA — -14
25. NJD — -10
26. CBJ — +2
27. BUF — +3
28. NYI — -2
29. ANA — 0
30. SJS — +2
31. WPG — 0
32. ARZ — -21

In raw numbers, and to dino7c's point: the difference between Montreal's top average (21,081) and Tampa's 2nd-ranked average (19,092; Δ = 1,989) is bigger than the difference between Tampa and 24th-ranked Seattle (17,151; Δ = 1,941).

Likewise there's a bigger gulf between 25th-ranked New Jersey (16,418) and 24th-ranked Seattle (Δ = 733) than there is between 22nd-ranked Calgary (17,356) and 14th-ranked St. Louis (18,068; Δ = 729). And the difference between 14th-ranked St. Louis and 11th-ranked Edmonton is a mere 49 people.

As such I think it's a bit absurd to be making a big deal out of the attendance of basically any team with 17,000+ people per night.

[timun]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Then why didn't they when they had a team? They didn't struggle for ticket sales, but they never sold out (mind you their arena only held 15700 or so).

81:77.6%
82:96.0%
83:95.6%
84:95.1%
85:94.4%
86:93.8%
87:94.1%
88:94.8%
89:92.3%
90:95.7%
91:90.0%
92:86.7%
93:95.1%
94:92.7%
95:91.3%

Oh I love playing this game. First of all, FYI your Nordiques numbers are wrong. The Colisée de Québec seating capacity was only 10,012 until midway through the '80-'81 season, 15,250 until '84, 15,434 until '87, and 15,399 thereafter.

Guess the team:

79-80 — 84.3%*
80-81 — 76.0%
81-82 — 81.9%
82-83 — 90.4%
83-84 — 94.0%
84-85 — 91.7%
85-86 — 86.0%
86-87 — 83.9%
87-88 — 94.9%
88-89 — 97.5%
89-90 — 99.1%
90-91 — 99.3%
91-92 — 98.8%
92-93 — 98.5%
93-94 — 96.9%
94-95 — 99.0%

Red highlighted years are years where fewer tickets were sold as a percentage of capacity as compared to the Nordiques; orange highlighted years are where the percentage was higher, but the actual number of attendees was still lower than the Nordiques. (* in '79-'80 this team had a bigger arena than the Nordiques)

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

Quebec City would sell out without almost a shadow of a doubt.

I don't think many people understand just how important hockey is to the culture here in Quebec.

Sounds like someone that wasn't alive in the 80's to see that the Nordiques never played in front of 15,750 capacity crowds regularly. It's a smaller market than Winnipeg and they would have an extremely difficult time filling an arena on a regular basis or attracting players to play in the market. It's why they will never get a team.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sounds like someone that wasn't alive in the 80's to see that the Nordiques never played in front of 15,750 capacity crowds regularly. It's a smaller market than Winnipeg and they would have an extremely difficult time filling an arena on a regular basis or attracting players to play in the market. It's why they will never get a team.

Winnipeg has a way better team than most teams the Nordiques had and the support was still better.

The Nordiques were a trash team in the late 80s and early 90s and still managed to have very solid support from the fan base.

How many teams would have full capacity when a team goes 4 straight seasons with 27,12,16 and 20 games won respectively.

Easy to swing around stats with little context.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

Winnipeg has a way better team than most teams the Nordiques had and the support was still better.

The Nordiques were a trash team in the late 80s and early 90s and still managed to have very solid support from the fan base.

How many teams would have full capacity when a team goes 4 straight seasons where your team won 27,12,16 and 20 games respectively.

Easy to swing around stats with little context.

Their attendance was relatively flat from their early seasons where they were very competitive to when they were bad. In those days I may remind you that it was nearly impossible to get tickets to a Flames game into the early 90's. Quebec is a tiny market with few corporations and simply doesn't have the money as the NHL is much bigger business now than it was in the 80's. You think players don't want to play in Calgary, Edmonton, or Winnipeg? Just wait and see how many american players would put that city on their NTC. It won't add much to Canadian broadcast viewership as it would just split the Quebec market that the Habs already own. People need to stop beating this horse as it's long dead and never going to happen.

https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attenda...h.php?tmi=7584

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by timun

Oh I love playing this game. First of all, FYI your Nordiques numbers are wrong. The Colisée de Québec seating capacity was only 10,012 until midway through the '80-'81 season, 15,250 until '84, 15,434 until '87, and 15,399 thereafter.

Guess the team:

79-80 — 84.3%*
80-81 — 76.0%
81-82 — 81.9%
82-83 — 90.4%
83-84 — 94.0%
84-85 — 91.7%
85-86 — 86.0%
86-87 — 83.9%
87-88 — 94.9%
88-89 — 97.5%
89-90 — 99.1%
90-91 — 99.3%
91-92 — 98.8%
92-93 — 98.5%
93-94 — 96.9%
94-95 — 99.0%

Red highlighted years are years where fewer tickets were sold as a percentage of capacity as compared to the Nordiques; orange highlighted years are where the percentage was higher, but the actual number of attendees was still lower than the Nordiques. (* in '79-'80 this team had a bigger arena than the Nordiques)

Guess why I started my list at 81? My list is from hockey db, btw, take it up with them.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Guess why I started my list at 81? My list is from hockey db, btw, take it up with them.

I may be mistaken but their arena was worked on all throughout the 1980 season which eventually lead to it increasing from 10k to 15k. They didn't start the season with a 15k capacity which explains the numbers.

Quebec had good attendance and the team was profitable. The owner wanted to sell and someone took the chance on the huge potential that Colorado had.

Quebec isn't a bad market and people who say it is are just wrong. Quebec is just a "smaller" but surefire market and unfortunately Betman wants to swing for the fences when it comes to new teams even if one in every five turns into Atlanta or Arizona.

[butterfly]

I think Quebec would get people buying tickets but wouldn’t get many new eyeballs on hockey like Las Vegas and Seattle did.

Also as Erick mentioned, what are the big companies from there to pay for all the sponsorships and marketing?

[activeStick]

Aside from the government, a client we did some work for before and the only actual large company I can think of with HQ in QC would be Industrial Alliance...

[White Out 403]

Lots of hot takes. Hard to pin point exactly whats going on Winnipeg but the local business community isn't buying tickets anywhere near at the pace of the rest of the league. Chipman and TNSE have been doing some work on that and hopefully the local business community sorts things out.

Attendance has been creeping back up and the last game of the year was a sell out. I don't expect it will be a long term issue, the Jets are in solid shape and have the wealthiest owners in the league who are committed to the city and developing inside the city, with projects like true north square.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Lots of hot takes. Hard to pin point exactly whats going on Winnipeg but the local business community isn't buying tickets anywhere near at the pace of the rest of the league. Chipman and TNSE have been doing some work on that and hopefully the local business community sorts things out.

Attendance has been creeping back up and the last game of the year was a sell out. I don't expect it will be a long term issue, the Jets are in solid shape and have the wealthiest owners in the league who are committed to the city and developing inside the city, with projects like true north square.

Winnipeg's attendance issues aren't a hot take. The numbers don't lie.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Winnipeg's attendance issues aren't a hot take. The numbers don't lie.

Oh is that what I said?

[The Fisher Account]

Quebec is different than Montreal. Financially, culturally, linguistically, etc..

I don't think Quebec would ever be able to attract Free Agents.