Grits/Tories in a tie now?

[mykalberta]

Please dont post any positive news about the PC party untill the election is over, you never know, we may see and add saying, "60% of people in vote rich CP online board say PC will win - vote liberal cause we arent scary on the outside, just on the inside "

MYK

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Lurch

You might want to stop and think JUST A TOUCH. The party that gets screwed by the broken system most badly is generally the NDP - the left wing fringe. My 'collosal arrogance' is very much in favour of a new system, i.e. proportional rep. My preference, the Greens, will likely get about 5% of the votes with 0 seats. The Manning solution of the EEE Senate is the very non-democratic solution where dirt and lines on a map get representation and gives very excessive power to places like SK, PEI, Nfld (and AB for that matter), etc with low populations.

It does that only if you look at it in isolation rather than what it would be in reality: half of the Legislative branch of government.

Look at Alberta specifically. With 10% of the population, Alberta would have 10% of the seats in the HoC. Under a EEE Senate, it would have slightly less than 10% of the Senate seats. Net result is that 10% of the population has 10% of the power.

Saskatchewan, PEI, etc would still get 10% of the Senate, but far, far less of the HoC. On the flip side, while Ontario and Quebec would have just under 20% of the power in the Senate combined, they would still have ~60% of the HoC.

Ontario and Quebec could dominate one half of government, but not it's entirety. The west (which is hardly united under one banner) or the Maritimes could have a significant influence in the Senate, but that power is balanced by the HoC.

A PR based House of Commons coupled with a EEE Senate is the most democratic format, as it gives power to the most people and the most regions of Canada. Lacking the Senate, Ontario and Quebec will dominate the other eight provinces regardless of how MPs are elected.

[Lurch]

You just did a brilliant job pointing out that dirt would have more influence than it does now. No matter how you want to work it, a EEE Senate does one thing: gives outsized power relative to population. If 1 vote = 1 vote, this is not a democratic solution. If 1 region = 1 region, then yes, it does. I just don't believe that borders within a country should be quite so important, especially if reducing regional conflict is your goal.

[Resolute 14]

Once again, since you obviously chose to ignore it, a EEE Senate only gives outsized power if you choose to forget the House of Commons exists.

[MarchHare]

Saskatchewan, PEI, etc would still get 10% of the Senate, but far, far less of the HoC.

PEI currently only has four seats in the HoC anyway (1.2% of total). I fail to see how reducing that tiny percentage even further is "balance" for giving their miniscule province 10% power in the senate.

[Lurch]

All right, I will try again. Yes, in the HoC, small provinces will be proportionate to population. However, I'm assuming that the Senate will be given equal power to the HoC in order to be Effective. As such, they will have 10% of the power in 50% of the gov't. Seems straightforward - more power than current.

[Resolute 14]

Which is exactly the point. Right now, Ontario and Quebec dominate Canada. With a EEE Senate, they could only dominate the House. It would most certantly give the other eight provinces more power, but that is the idea behind the EEE Senate. To help ensure that all Canadians have a voice, not just those that live in Toronto or Montreal.

As you say, 10% of the power in 50% of the Legislature. 5% overall. How terrifying a concept for Ontario...

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

PEI currently only has four seats in the HoC anyway (1.2% of total). I fail to see how reducing that tiny percentage even further is "balance" for giving their miniscule province 10% power in the senate.

It isn't meant to be. Holding 10% of the Senate gives PEI a voice. 1% of the HoC denies it the ability to dictate national affairs.

[mykalberta]

What does it matter - Liberals are going to win - tell your firends - Liberals are going to win - PC have no chance.

MYK