The Foolish Optimism Thread

[The Cobra]

I agree the Flames aren't playing as bad as the score seems to indicate, and it's been going on since last year.

But at some stage they need to simply win.

Most of us are tired of the "unlucky" narrative, even if true.

Wins will be the only thing that will convince most posters that the Flames have a chance.

[Spurs]

When you say you have optimism my question would be for what?

A wild card team that could sneak into the first round? A team competing for the division and a top seed in the Western Conference? A Stanley Cup contender?

If it is a a borderline play-off team sure, if you are seeing things that have them above that then fair enough but I don't know how.

[Strange Brew]

^ this is the wrong thread for you

[Geeoff]

optimism: Nazem Kadri is a proud guy who has 569 points in 828 games. That's a solid career as a top 6 player.



He may not be happy sticking around in the NHL as a 4th line calibre player. Could probably find some nagging injury to LTIRetire on. Brett Hull retired early in the season in a similar situation (although now the meta is to go on LTIR and collect the rest of your fat contract before retiring)

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

optimism: Nazem Kadri is a proud guy who has 569 points in 828 games. That's a solid career as a top 6 player.



He may not be happy sticking around in the NHL as a 4th line calibre player. Could probably find some nagging injury to LTIRetire on. Brett Hull retired early in the season in a similar situation (although now the meta is to go on LTIR and collect the rest of your fat contract before retiring)

The insurance company may have something to say about that before paying out a gazzillion dollars.

Many seem to thing that players who retire on LTIR have made up injuries. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You are talking about close to 6 years of payments. A nagging injury doesn't tend to last 6 years..

[Enoch Root]

I agree that, while the stats are the same, there is an underlying difference. The offensive chances being created are more dangerous, on the whole, than last year - they are making more plays, and getting truly dangerous chances, but they continue to miss the net, flub the shot, or take too long to pull the trigger. All of these things stem from a continued lack of confidence. But I think it will come.

Defensively, while there are still some breakdowns, I think it is again better than last year. The biggest problem defensively so far has been the egregious giveaways. And again, I think that stems from a lack of confidence. They are not yet certain where each other are supposed to be, and there is that little bit of delay that results. And the delays / uncertainties are causing turnovers.

I think both the offense and the defense look better than last year, and I think both will improve, as they get more familiar with the things they are trying to do.

Markstrom has been great AT TIMES so far this year. But goaltending continues to be a source of negative momentum.

As does the power kill. The PP in the 3rd last night is a perfect example. They were playing well, and they were definitely generating some chances in the 3rd, and building some momentum. They get a PP< and are never able to put 2 passes together or set up a chance. Literally nothing. Completely deflating.

Fix the PP and leave the lines together long enough to generate some familiarity. Because there are definitely some positive things to build on.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The insurance company may have something to say about that before paying out a gazzillion dollars.

Many seem to thing that players who retire on LTIR have made up injuries. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You are talking about close to 6 years of payments. A nagging injury doesn't tend to last 6 years..

Everyone who plays in the NHL has real injuries. Who's the last player with a long, lucrative contract who retired without going on LTIR? Also, this is the *optimism* thread and this is probably the most optimistic way for things to play out for the Flames.


I guess Luongo retired before his deal was up. I can't think of any other examples in a while.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Great post, thanks.

I'm just as negative as anyone. I said before the season started that we weren't big enough, physical enough, or tough enough. I questioned the Huska hire. I've never been a fan of Markstrom. I've been vocal about my concerns with this team, but it's only the 7th game and I've seen flashes of a winning system. The players are learning a new defensive scheme, and they are trying to get their creativity back. I have some confidence that they will get there, but it's way too early for everyone to be this down on the team.

I know I'll get flamed, so flame away.

I don't know, I think this is a great post. Feeling a bit discouraged myself but did see the effort just not the execution.

[TheIronMaiden]

Respect to the holy ground that an optimism thread is.

[Erick Estrada]

https://theathletic.com/4980491/2023...-man-coverage/

There's an Athletic article today regarding teams switching to zone defense. The Flames, Oilers and a few other teams have switched over and as you can see by the Flames and Oilers results, there's some growing pains. It's a good article though because players seem to like it better and once the Flames get fully acclimated, their play should improve. It's not a cure for the poor shooting percentage, lack of finish, or poor goaltending, but it's a start towards better team hockey.

“Man-on-man, you’re (trying to) go attack and try to kill a play right away,” said Calgary’s Mikael Backlund. “This system (zone), you need to pick your spots. And when pucks are bobbled or pucks are on the wall, that’s when you can be more aggressive and kill plays.”

“For us, we’ve got to be everywhere — the spider in the web,” said Backlund of his position, center. “Support every situation and be ready to kill the play when it’s the right time and be ready to transition out of the zone. We have a big role where we have to support everyone.”

“It was a little bit of an adjustment,” Backlund said. “Felt pretty good in games, though. It’s going to become better and better as the season moves along here.”

[calumniate]

I thought last game wasn't so bad. Could have chalked it up as a tough loss, but the flames record doesn't really allow for that

[TheIronMaiden]

With exception to Vegas, the Pacific division is still wide open.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The team found a lot of success killing plays at the blue line before as well, creates that bobbled puck, a dump in, or easy to get the puck up and out the zone quicker instead of allowing the team to jump in and set up and try to attack that way.

I think the key to unlocking the team is really finding more pace with Huberdeau and green lighting the defenceman to be quick quick quick and transition the puck by skating it out and drawing coverage which should open up the forwards to either receive a pass, or the d to carry it in and the forwards to trail and get a pass that way.

Just way to stationary at the moment trying to connect passes through zones.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I'm feeling OK because if the team has a terrible season that's not a bad thing.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm feeling OK because if the team has a terrible season that's not a bad thing.

It sounds strange to say but maybe the best thing for this franchise would be for this season to be a complete failure on the ice. I realize Edwards is pretty stubborn with his anti-rebuild sentiment but I'm sure (or I hope) he's smart enough to realize when it's time to fold a bad hand. It's really all on the owner to give Conroy the green light to do the right thing and sell, sell, sell to begin building a team that fans will want to pay to watch when they open up the new arena. As seen by the declining attendance there's not a lot of appetite for Calgarians to pay to watch the current roster.

[SuperMatt18]

The Flames never seem to lean into a bad season...when really they should be more honest.

In 20-21 they should have leaned into that terrible season in the bubble - especially with limited fans in attendance anyways. Instead they brought Sutter in mid-year to try to salvage that season.

Fir this year I don't think they are at that point yet, and the underlying stats say they won't be bad enough to truly be that bad, but if by game 20 they are below .500 and don't seem to be making progress then they need to lean into being bad. Don't make a panic move to salvage the season, just lean into getting that top 5 pick.

[Kipper_3434]

Optimistic we will receive a high draft pick this season. No longer optimistic that we'll see Wolf any time soon. Team has had every reason to bring him to the NHL for at least the last year. They still haven't so I'm not watching anymore games til Wolf is dressed, as protest

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The Flames never seem to lean into a bad season...when really they should be more honest.

In 20-21 they should have leaned into that terrible season in the bubble - especially with limited fans in attendance anyways. Instead they brought Sutter in mid-year to try to salvage that season.

Fir this year I don't think they are at that point yet, and the underlying stats say they won't be bad enough to truly be that bad, but if by game 20 they are below .500 and don't seem to be making progress then they need to lean into being bad. Don't make a panic move to salvage the season, just lean into getting that top 5 pick.

Seems like we pick in that range the year after a strong draft.

Just some bad luck with this franchise.

[activeStick]

To me, those stats tell us that they are playing an effective system, but simply don't have the talent to score on the very high number of chances they are creating. Shots are weak and not enough traffic maybe. The shooting percentage is about the same as last season with the same players, so I don't think it's bad luck. I think it's the lack of talent of the players. Goaltending is good enough from Markstrom, I think, despite the low save percentage.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

optimism: Nazem Kadri is a proud guy who has 569 points in 828 games. That's a solid career as a top 6 player.



He may not be happy sticking around in the NHL as a 4th line calibre player. Could probably find some nagging injury to LTIRetire on. Brett Hull retired early in the season in a similar situation (although now the meta is to go on LTIR and collect the rest of your fat contract before retiring)

HAHA this is never going to happen..

The only hope is we can retain $2mill and trade him away.

I'm hopeful this organization has finally learned - Raymond, Brouwer, Neal, Kadri - and will never do this again.

How many times do you need to strike out to realize it doesn't work?

You only consider going down this path, IMO, if the player has been a elite/1st line player their whole career.

Continuing to do this for 2nd/3rd liners is madness!