Salvaging the honour of a family

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Bernardo is a sick individual. The woman who killed her four children in Texas because God told her to do so is a sick individual. And other examples. It is not a practice accepted by our society. Its typically committed by individuals with some pyschological problems.

The practice of honour killings in a Muslim culture does not require one to be mentally ill or unstable. It happens with great frequency and a certain and large segment of society finds it an acceptable practice, so much so that perpetrators are not punished and governments continue to allow mechanisms that do not discourage it.

That is the difference and that is what you are attempting to defend.

Having established that, should we allow honour killings in our society? Are we the ones who are wrong to look on this practice in horror? Would we be a better society or a worse off society if we allowed the practice?

Cowperson

Yup we should Cow...we should allow mercy killing for anyone who cheers openly for the Oilers or Nucks...JUST JOKING!!!!!!

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Your stomach will turn and you'll involuntarily bring your hand to your throat as you read this.

Then you'll tell us what you think of what is a common practice in that part of the world.

Cowperson

Cow, I generally respect what you have to say, but in this case I think you're overstating things by saying this is "common practice". It happens, it's horrible, but I wouldn't say it's common practice.

Is pedophilia in the Catholic Church "common practice"?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Cow, I generally respect what you have to say, but in this case I think you're overstating things by saying this is "common practice". It happens, it's horrible, but I wouldn't say it's common practice.

Is pedophilia in the Catholic Church "common practice"?

It's all relative, man. It (killing your daughters) certainly isn't common in the western hemisphere, but it happens with disturbing frequency in the east. That in mind, yeah, it's "common practice".

Sorta like how you never really hear about protestant ministers or muslim leaders humping and molesting little boys. Kinda makes it "common practice" as far as the catholic church goes.

In other words, give up your constant PC bull****. Do you spend your time looking for opportunities to point out the smallest little political incorrectness?

[Frank the Tank]

I think the death penalty is too harsh for this guy. We should be more humane and just remove his testicles with a butter knife.

[Frank the Tank]

Also, does anyone find it strange that this culture/religion treats women this way and demands the wife give the husband a son, when its the mans swimmer that determines the gender of a baby? I find that really odd....just a thought...

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by 4X4

In other words, give up your constant PC bull****. Do you spend your time looking for opportunities to point out the smallest little political incorrectness?

So... this is how you respond to a guy who's making a simple point? By insulting him? Nice. Obviously 'Political Correctness' does not equal 'respect and tolerance' to you. Hell, respect alone would be enough.. I suppose that's too much to ask of you. You're a credit to your ideology.

Why not be the second to sound like an ass, rather than the first? It adds to your credibility. Not to mention that you basically pull this 'common practise' assertion out nowhere. It sounds like you're saying; "Because I've heard of it, it's common practise". I suppose this means that US abuse of POW's (detainees) is 'common practise' because it's all over the media?

'Common Practise' means it happens in more than 1 out of 1000 cases, in my opinion.. but I guess that's just 'thinking' about it, rather than shooting my mouth off.

[4X4]

Ag, have you watched the news in, ohh, the last 15 years? Eastern nations have been abusing women and catholic preists have been molesting boys. It happens frequently. Are you denying this?

"Because I've heard of it, it's common practise". I guess all your education has taught you little more than how to turn a blind eye to things you don't wanna hear about.

[Frank the Tank]

This thread is becoming very bitter very quickly. Keep in mind we are talking about something that we should all agree on, and that is the fact that these crimes are commited against women for the sole fact that they are women. I think we can all agree that it is barbaric and wrong, surely the rest is just details, no?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Ag, have you watched the news in, ohh, the last 15 years? Eastern nations have been abusing women and catholic preists have been molesting boys. It happens frequently. Are you denying this?

"Because I've heard of it, it's common practise". I guess all your education has taught you little more than how to turn a blind eye to things you don't wanna hear about.

So I take it then that you agree, US abuse of POW's is 'common practise'. Or is there a time limit on what constitutes 'common practise'?

I certainly don't think so... but I guess if you just 'don't think about it', it's easy to convince yourself of anything.

I do not believe pedophelia is 'common practise' in the Catholic Church. But I suppose you have to define 'common practise', something I attempted to do, which you ignored. Typical.

What the hell do you know about my education? Nothing. So shut up about it.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

This thread is becoming very bitter very quickly. Keep in mind we are talking about something that we should all agree on, and that is the fact that these crimes are commited against women for the sole fact that they are women. I think we can all agree that it is barbaric and wrong, surely the rest is just details, no?

Yep. Barbaric and wrong. 100% agreed.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Yep. Barbaric and wrong. 100% agreed.

So why all the squabbling about minute details like what constitutes "common practise"? I'll never understand that about this message board. People get bent over the smallest detail.

Not saying its your fault Ag. You have very valid points, as does your counterpart.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

But I suppose you have to define 'common practise', something I attempted to do, which you ignored. Typical.

Holy crap. Try rereading my post. I said that it's all relative. REad it good and slowly. Understand that my point was that he wasn't necesarily saying that more muslims kill women than less muslims. He was saying that withing the demographic, it is common practise when compared to other demos.

It wasnt an insult, it me saying "quit looking for ways to point out political incorrectness, and take the mans opinion for what it is".

Are we going to have another ****ing match?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

So why all the squabbling about minute details like what constitutes "common practise"? I'll never understand that about this message board. People get bent over the smallest detail.

Not saying its your fault Ag. You have very valid points, as does your counterpart.

Fair enough.

Though, I believe longsuffering had a totally valid, debateable point to be made on this topic, and I don't think he was trying to 'start' anything. Then some fool came along and insulted the hell out of him.

I agree, that's the problem w/ this message board. Someone will post something intelligent for others to debate, and some guy _needs_ to marginalize/generalize/trivialize the point. It's stupid and detracts from the argument. Why should he get away with being an ass?

But I hear what you're saying, and agree with what you said. Enough from me on this topic.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

This thread is becoming very bitter very quickly. Keep in mind we are talking about something that we should all agree on, and that is the fact that these crimes are commited against women for the sole fact that they are women. I think we can all agree that it is barbaric and wrong, surely the rest is just details, no?

Yes.

But I think what some people are objecting to is the term "common practice".

There are 140 million people in Pakistan and 260 of these murders (according to the article) have taken place this year. That is 260 too many obviously, but it doesn't sound like common practice to me.

There might be 15 thousand murders in the United States this year. Would anyone disagree with the statement "murder is a common practice in the United States"? Or what about Toronto this year? What is the number, 75? 75 murders in a city of 3 million is a much more common practice than 260 murders in a country of 140 million. So I guess murder is a common practice in Toronto?

EDIT: and I see you responded to this as I typed it up so let's move along.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yes.

But I think what some people are objecting to is the term "common practice".

There are 140 million people in Pakistan and 260 of these murders (according to the article) have taken place this year. That is 260 too many obviously, but it doesn't sound like common practice to me.

There might be 15 thousand murders in the United States this year. Would anyone disagree with the statement "murder is a common practice in the United States"? Or what about Toronto this year? What is the number, 75? 75 murders in a city of 3 million is a much more common practice than 260 murders in a country of 140 million. So I guess murder is a common practice in Toronto?

Rouge, why did you have to go ahead and bring 'logic' and 'facts' into this? It's clearly not welcome...

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Fair enough.

Though, I believe longsuffering had a totally valid, debateable point to be made on this topic, and I don't think he was trying to 'start' anything. Then some fool came along and insulted the hell out of him.

I agree, that's the problem w/ this message board. Someone will post something intelligent for others to debate, and some guy _needs_ to marginalize/generalize/trivialize the point. It's stupid and detracts from the argument. Why should he get away with being an ass?

But I hear what you're saying, and agree with what you said. Enough from me on this topic.

Inslut the hell out of him? Fool?

marginalize/generalize/trivialize

being an ass?


Enough from you...

[Frank the Tank]

For this year, I would agree 100% with your Toronto comment. That city is totally out of control. Ban handguns, that'll solve EVERYTHING!!

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Cow, I generally respect what you have to say, but in this case I think you're overstating things by saying this is "common practice". It happens, it's horrible, but I wouldn't say it's common practice.

Is pedophilia in the Catholic Church "common practice"?

I actually clarified my comment regarding "common practice" in a later post with this paragraph:

The practice of honour killings in a Muslim culture does not require one to be mentally ill or unstable. It happens with great frequency and a certain and large segment of society finds it an acceptable practice, so much so that perpetrators are not punished and governments continue to allow mechanisms that do not discourage it.

Obviously pedophilia among Catholic priests is not tolerated by people or the mechanisms of government in western cultures.

Cowperson

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I actually clarified my comment regarding "common practice" in a later post with this paragraph:

The practice of honour killings in a Muslim culture does not require one to be mentally ill or unstable. It happens with great frequency and a certain and large segment of society finds it an acceptable practice, so much so that perpetrators are not punished and governments continue to allow mechanisms that do not discourage it.

Obviously pedophilia among Catholic priests is not tolerated by people or the mechanisms of government in western cultures.

Cowperson

Great point. Though, this almost sounds more like 'condoned practise' as opposed to 'common practise'. My interpretation of 'common' = 'frequency', not acceptability. But obviously there's room for interpretation here. Rouge's stats certainly don't make it look like honour killing is 'common' in Pakistan, though it seems to be 'condoned'. My last 2 cents (hopefully.. I'm out of cents!).

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

. My last 2 cents (hopefully.. I'm out of cents!).

Ah, I see... After you call me out for not addressing your question, and I point out that I did, you suddenly have nothing to say. :baby: