32 Thoughts Podcast update on Calgary

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Muta

I must be the only one that wants Hanifin to stay. I thought he indicated as such during garbage bag day, too.

Hanifin is under-rated here, as not overly-physical defensemen have been in the past. However, I don't mind moving him, because I think he is easier to replace than Lindholm is. As long as they get a solid return for him.

[howard_the_duck]

Concerning to me on a couple fronts.

If no pressure on Lindholm, and in order to keep him happy and likely to sign it's staying competitive, I worry that changes the priorities in any Hanifin trade to win now vs future pieces, where the latter may be easier to get a better return.

I'm also in the camp of paying Lindholm that contract is a bad move. Having 3 players play into their late 30s with $7M+ is ill-advisable for any team's salary picture, but the flames in particular. We don't have the organizational prospects that are pushing on ELC to absorb this, and we're also not good enough as currently constructed to say we're a cup contender.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

This isn't true, and also has nothing to do with my post:

It was a reply to your first post, and to your comment that nothing has changed. There is a pretty clear readiness for change here.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't have a problem with keeping Lindholm (good player), my point is moreso on the Flames needing to set internal deadlines and protect the team.

They need to get this extension agreed to prior to the draft, or trade him at the draft. So we won't really know until July 1st (when the deal can be signed), but if the extension doesn't get announced July 1st I think they've made a mistake.

Thing is...you're also looking at it through a lens where your preferred option is a rebuild.

So you're happy to put that deadline on it because your leaning towards moving him anyways.

Conroy clearly wants to keep this player.

If the Flames are at $8.5M right now, and Lindholm is at $9.5M, but the sides are having strong discussions then going "You have to sign by the draft" is a bit of a weird approach.

1) He can't sign until July 1 anyways
2) His answer is just going to be "Give me $9.5M and I'll sign"

It's clear this is likely going to get done, so as long as both sides are continually working to the extension then no need for the false deadline.

Now if Lindholm goes "I'm not negotiating off $9.5M and that's what it will take to keep me in Calgary", and the Flames don't want to pay that price then they need to be open to making a deal, but it doesn't sound like there is a hard line by either side at this point.

They seemed to take the same approach with Hanifin, it's clear they probably won't get something done, so looks like he's going to get moved.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Muta

I must be the only one that wants Hanifin to stay. I thought he indicated as such during garbage bag day, too.

As we saw last summer, what players say to the media isn't always what they really mean. Or they're open to coming back but just not as much as they make it sound.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

To me this reads like he is staying.

There has been smoke from people on twitter and this forum (SEC214 and Dissentowner) that this is pretty close to being done.

If you're negotiating and are close on term / money you're not going to go "YOU HAVE TO SIGN BY THE DRAFT" because it wouldn't be realistic (he can't officially sign until July 1 anyways) and would probably just mean you're ending up increasing your offer to get the deal signed.

To me this reads it's getting done.



200 FT centers and top end d-men tend to be the positions that you see players age better.

We all thought Backlund's deal would look bad by the end...but he's remained great until 35. Kopitar signed for 8 x $10 back in 16/17 and has remained effective for most of that contract. Bergeron has been great for all 8 seasons.

It's not ideal to sign Lindholm to an 8 year deal that will start when he's 29 years old...but he also plays the type of 200 foot game as a center that tends to age well into the mid-30s.

And really $8.5M is going to fine in a league where the true stars are going to be getting $12M plus...as long as it's not above $9m it should be fine.

Agree 100%. If they are close enough that they know they'll get it done, and they have a commitment from Lindholm that he is in, assuming the direction of the team, then it takes some of the heat off having it done by July 1st.

I think that they need to KNOW that it'll be done, by the draft.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Muta

I must be the only one that wants Hanifin to stay. I thought he indicated as such during garbage bag day, too.

My guess is he was happy to stay at a price the Flames don't want to pay for him.

I like Hanifin too...I'd actually prefer to keep him too. Weegar, Hanifin, Andersson feels like it should be the core of this defense for a long time.

But I'm also not sure I love paying Hanifin more than $7M...which I'm guessing his ask was.

[CalgaryFan1988]

I disagree with the need to trade Lindholm prior to the draft for maximum return. With his contract, he will be appealing to a number of teams throughout the season. That being said, I think it's better for Calgary to trade him as early as possible for the good of the team.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Thing is...you're also looking at it through a lens where your preferred option is a rebuild.

So you're happy to put that deadline on it because your leaning towards moving him anyways.

Conroy clearly wants to keep this player.

If the Flames are at $8.5M right now, and Lindholm is at $9.5M, but the sides are having strong discussions then going "You have to sign by the draft" is a bit of a weird approach.

1) He can't sign until July 1 anyways
2) His answer is just going to be "Give me $9.5M and I'll sign"

It's clear this is likely going to get done, so as long as both sides are continually working to the extension then no need for the false deadline.

Now if Lindholm goes "I'm not negotiating off $9.5M and that's what it will take to keep me in Calgary", and the Flames don't want to pay that price then they need to be open to making a deal, but it doesn't sound like there is a hard line by either side at this point.

They seemed to take the same approach with Hanifin, it's clear they probably won't get something done, so looks like he's going to get moved.

The Flames have to be comfortable with the number at the end of the day.

If they're comfortable with $9.5M, agree to it and announce it July 1st.

If they aren't comfortable with that and are at $8.5M, and Lindy wants $9.5M - then make that decision to pivot at the draft. That's all I'm saying.

Conroy needs to set internal deadlines when it comes to getting things agreed to in order to protect the team from getting itself into an unfavorable position.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Hanifin will be moved at some point

Lindholm and Flames talking
Flames know if they want to keep Lindholm it will be Horvat money (around 8 x $8.5)
Conversations about direction of team
Lindholm has indicated that if he commits that he doesn't want a full rebuild

Flames are waiting on Lindholm before deciding on Toffoli, Zadorov, Tanev, etc.

If Lindholm and Hanifin are out, there are going to be different discussions. (maybe not full rebuild, but lots of questions to answer)
Lindholm is the linchpin in the Flames plans
Flames are not putting pressure on Lindholm to make decision by draft.

Hanifin has made a decision to see what is out there.

Don't expect Markstrom to be moved.
Has heard that he wants to come back.

Goalie market is very volatile (with respect to the Flames moving Vladar)

Don't fool yourselves.

I certainly hope these old boys have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge that it's rebuild time if neither player comes to terms on an agreement here.

[Manhattanboy]

I am on the fence on Lindy.

On the one hand hand, he would be very hard to replace.

On the other, I thought he struggled significantly without Johnny and Chucky and the return for a centre with his talent and potential should be big.

He could take another team to the next level....

[Muta]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

But I'm also not sure I love paying Hanifin more than $7M...which I'm guessing his ask was.

Yeah I love the guy, but if his demands end up being in that range, no thanks. IMO, you need to be regularly scoring 50+ points from the backend to be commanding that. He hasn't done that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I am on the fence on Lindy.

On the one hand hand, he would be very hard to replace.

On the other, I thought he struggled significantly without Johnny and Chucky and the return for a centre with his talent and potential should be big.

He could take another team to the next level....

I am on the fence as well.

But I absolutely agree that he is the baseline for the direction of the team - if they don't sign him, they have to trade him. And if they trade him, they can't replace him. So that forces significant changes.

If they do sign him, they still have a playoff team, and a team that can compete for the division crown. That being the case, you stay there. But that doesn't mean they simply re-sign everyone. Hanifin is replaceable, if they trade him. And Toffoli and Tanev have to be evaluated honestly, regardless of the path.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Flames have to be comfortable with the number at the end of the day.

If they're comfortable with $9.5M, agree to it and announce it July 1st.

If they aren't comfortable with that and are at $8.5M, and Lindy wants $9.5M - then make that decision to pivot at the draft. That's all I'm saying.

Conroy needs to set internal deadlines when it comes to getting things agreed to in order to protect the team from getting itself into an unfavorable position.

But why jump up and pay the $9.5M just to meet some false deadline that you made up.

If you think it will get done, and you think you can get it done for less than his current $9.5M ask, and discussions are going well, then why make up a fake deadline.

I'd prefer to trade him and get 2023 picks too...but moving past that date doesn't mean you can't trade him still. I actually don't see a lot of teams that are a fit with a 1st round 2023 pick I'd want for Lindholm anyways.

[Ashes]

Interesting, so if they don't come to an understanding with Lindholm it sounds as though there will be "discussions" about the the direction of the team, and perhaps we see additional expiring contracts moved out to shake up the core and hopefully get younger.

If Lindholm and the Flames do come to an agreement, it's under the pretense that Lindholm doesn't want to be here for a "rebuild" (don't worry Elias, we don't do that here), but does that increase the likelihood of keeping guys like Backlund/Toffoli?? It sounds as though Hanifin might be moved regardless of what Lindholm decides to do.

I just hope as others have said, the Flames and Conroy will commit to a direction by draft day based on the information they have available. Last trade deadline they froze, and punted the big decisions to this summer. If they are stuck waiting for answers on draft day and pass up the chance to make big swinging trades then we are right back to where we were before Tre left.. middle ground/run it back and cross fingers.

[traptor]

Not setting a deadline for lindy by the draft is fine.

But if conroy learned anything from gaudreau be has to have pen to paper by the end of summer.

They thought gaudreau signing was done until the final hours.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

He could take another team to the next level....

Not as a #1C, which is what he would be in Calgary.

If he insists on an 8 year deal, you have to move him. If it's 6 or preferably 5 years, he can have Horvat money with no trade protection.

[Yeah_Baby]

If Lindholm resigns, does Backlund sign for a 2 or 3 year extension at a discount and the C?

[Muta]

If Lindholm does end up leaving, do others leave as well?

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The Flames are waiting on Lindholm before deciding on Toffoli, Zadorov, Tanev, etc.

This is very concerning; it seems Conroy is willing to run it back with an ageing core with a few of our own prospects sprinkled in and whatever comes back for Hanifin. I was really hoping they consider moving on from Toffoli and Tanev, but if those two are also handed out extensions along with Lindholm, good luck managing the cap in a few years.