Let's discuss people gaming the system with chq's

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

i had a customer a number of years ago that was making an injury claim. it had some validity to it initially, but once the $ started coming he definitely abused the system. i guess the insurance company had some suspicions about him and had a PI follow him and got some pretty incriminating pics of him. i think it was a shoulder injury he had - but then the PI got pics of him packing boxes around, golfing, etc.
i'm not sure what exactly happened in the end, but i know his payments were stopped immediately. i don't know if he ever had to repay any money.

i had a work injury years ago (30 years ago i think?). i was working in a restaurant and cut my right hand bad. 20+ stitches, nerves and tendons severed. wcb was excellent with my case (it was a short term case - and as cappy mentioned that can be easier to get). i remember my contact lady being very nice. my injury happened at a summer job so i contacted her at the end of august to tell her that since i would be attending university in september that my hours would have dropped to part-time and so the payments from wcb should probably be adjusted. she was shocked that i called to tell her that... i blame my parents for instilling me with a 'moral compass' - ha!

About 25 years ago my brother was on EI for a bad back injury. WCB got suspicious and sent a PI out to investigate him. WCB then called in my brother (and my dad went because he basically had to carry my brother due to the injury) to a meeting to discuss and the PI proudly threw a bunch of photos of my brother working a very physical job on the table. Thought they had him red handed, but it was his coworker they had snapped pics of. My brother was sitting in a recliner (couldn't lay down because has back was so messed up) at the time the photos were taken. haha, it was a short meeting and my brother hobbled off back home.

[blankall]

I saw a lot of people abusing the system during CERB. I'd like to think that was different, as the world was in such a messed up time generally. But yes, abuse of the system is always an issue. The vast majority of the people using these systems are genuine though.

[lazypucker]

When I was a student, I worked part-time at a call center, when there were still call centers in Calgary. Anyways, being a union shop, many old-timers abused the system to get maximum benefits with minimum work.

One woman I guess in her late 50's, early 60's took it to the max. She would come in, "worked" for like 3 days, then called in sick for a week, then took vacation days off, showed up 3 weeks later, then "worked" for another 3 days, then took a paid stress leave / paid medical leave for 3 months....and the cycle repeats.

Of course when I say "work" for this grandmother of Karens, it was more like sitting around complaining about everything, and took like 20 smoke breaks and bathroom breaks in an 8-hour shift. So in a calendar year, I think she would have showed up a maximum of 30 days, but still got full pay.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

When I was a student, I worked part-time at a call center, when there were still call centers in Calgary. Anyways, being a union shop, many old-timers abused the system to get maximum benefits with minimum work.

One woman I guess in her late 50's, early 60's took it to the max. She would come in, "worked" for like 3 days, then called in sick for a week, then took vacation days off, showed up 3 weeks later, then "worked" for another 3 days, then took a paid stress leave / paid medical leave for 3 months....and the cycle repeats.

Of course when I say "work" for this grandmother of Karens, it was more like sitting around complaining about everything, and took like 20 smoke breaks and bathroom breaks in an 8-hour shift. So in a calendar year, I think she would have showed up a maximum of 30 days, but still got full pay.

The paid smoke breaks thing was so bizarre. I remember working in the kitchen, when they still had those in place. Basically, if you were a smoker you were entitled to an extra 15 minute break every 1.5ish hours....because?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

i had a work injury years ago (30 years ago i think?). i was working in a restaurant and cut my right hand bad. 20+ stitches, nerves and tendons severed. wcb was excellent with my case (it was a short term case - and as cappy mentioned that can be easier to get). i remember my contact lady being very nice. my injury happened at a summer job so i contacted her at the end of august to tell her that since i would be attending university in september that my hours would have dropped to part-time and so the payments from wcb should probably be adjusted. she was shocked that i called to tell her that... i blame my parents for instilling me with a 'moral compass' - ha!

Yeah, don't get me wrong, WCB is beneficial to employees - and as much as company's complain about it, it is beneficial to them considering the amount of PI lawyers who would love to go after companies for workplace injuries.

Short-term injuries and things like breaks/fractures are always a bit simpler. Long-term issues, and soft-tissue injuries are the big struggles. Mental health is certainly becoming a bigger issue too. These are much harder to get a bearing on and can result in battles between competing independent medical assessments

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by blankall

The paid smoke breaks thing was so bizarre. I remember working in the kitchen, when they still had those in place. Basically, if you were a smoker you were entitled to an extra 15 minute break every 1.5ish hours....because?

I worked in kitchens in my teens/early 20s as well, and would just take second hand smoke breaks. If they get to stand outside for a bit every hour, then so do I

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I worked in kitchens in my teens/early 20s as well, and would just take second hand smoke breaks. If they get to stand outside for a bit every hour, then so do I

Exactly what I did when working in a factory.

[Locke]

Speaking as a tax accountant, especially going through the pandemic...I think some of you are seriously underestimating how many people do this.

I think people would be shocked at some of the nonsense that I see.

I mean, the stories about 'gaming the system' that I could tell you from just last week would blow people away much less during the pandemic.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Locke

Speaking as a tax accountant, especially going through the pandemic...I think some of you are seriously underestimating how many people do this.

I think people would be shocked at some of the nonsense that I see.

I mean, the stories about 'gaming the system' that I could tell you from just last week would blow people away much less during the pandemic.

Virtually everyone here is an upper-middle to upper-class white guy. They encounter this sort of fraud about as often as they claim welfare.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I worked in kitchens in my teens/early 20s as well, and would just take second hand smoke breaks. If they get to stand outside for a bit every hour, then so do I

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Exactly what I did when working in a factory.

I have a distinct memory of trying to explain to my Master Corporal that I should get Health Breaks, if smokers got un-Health breaks to go and smoke.

He didn't disagree, but we differed on what they looked like. Mine was feet up enjoying the sunshine.

His was pushups in the sunshine.

I got good at pushups.

[CliffFletcher]

My wife works providing aid to WCB claimants coming off long-term claims. The majority are willing to retrain and take up new work that they’re deemed capable of performing. Some - maybe 10-15 per cent, in her experience - will do anything to avoid working again. They don’t want to take new training or learn a new job. They just want to stay on WCB forever.

Then there’s EI fraud and exploitation, which is openly acknowledged as a way of life in parts of the country. People who arrange to get laid off when they have exactly the number of weeks to become eligible and collect their 20 weeks or whatever, year after year after year.

I’m not sure why it’s considered bad form to bring this stuff up. If you support these programs and want deserving people to benefit from them, you should want us to be vigilant about ensuring they aren’t abused. My wife remarks that it’s the people who use WCB honestly who get most pissed off about the entitled cheaters. But as others have remarked, it’s not something the demographics of CP posters are exposed to a lot.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Locke

Speaking as a tax accountant, especially going through the pandemic...I think some of you are seriously underestimating how many people do this.

I think people would be shocked at some of the nonsense that I see.

I mean, the stories about 'gaming the system' that I could tell you from just last week would blow people away much less during the pandemic.

I did taxes in my past as well and yes - there are a ton of people who abuse the system. I was at one of those instant refund tax places and they would know all the tricks to get back more then they deserved. And they should be caught and cracked down on.

But as a tax accountant - I'm sure you at minimum know of rich people who also pull every trick in the book to lower their taxes owing. Put their kid on payroll, pay their wife a dividend, setup a family trust. The big accounting firms make bucket loads of money just figure out ways to structure companies to minimize taxes. Its all the same scheme just at a higher level.

The poor guy goes to 10 different walk-in clinics to find someone to sign off on his disability claim. The rich guy pays KPMG to set-up a bunch of different companies to minimize his taxes.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I did taxes in my past as well and yes - there are a ton of people who abuse the system. I was at one of those instant refund tax places and they would know all the tricks to get back more then they deserved. And they should be caught and cracked down on.

But as a tax accountant - I'm sure you at minimum know of rich people who also pull every trick in the book to lower their taxes owing. Put their kid on payroll, pay their wife a dividend, setup a family trust. The big accounting firms make bucket loads of money just figure out ways to structure companies to minimize taxes. Its all the same scheme just at a higher level.

The poor guy goes to 10 different walk-in clinics to find someone to sign off on his disability claim. The rich guy pays KPMG to set-up a bunch of different companies to minimize his taxes.

Absolutely.

But I've said this before and I'll say it again.

In my experience, most high-earning people dont mind paying their taxes.

They really dont.

Its when they watch their Government waste their hard-earned dollars that causes people sit back and say...

"Why give it to these clowns? I can manage this better myself."

And thats why we are where we are.

If people think there is only a small minority of 'benefits cheats' in this country? They're fooling themselves.

Its not a majority of claimants, but it is almost certainly a much bigger problem than most people think.

And once again, the system can only handle so much.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

My wife works providing aid to WCB claimants coming off long-term claims. The majority are willing to retrain and take up new work that they’re deemed capable of performing. Some - maybe 10-15 per cent, in her experience - will do anything to avoid working again. They don’t want to take new training or learn a new job. They just want to stay on WCB forever.

Then there’s EI fraud and exploitation, which is openly acknowledged as a way of life in parts of the country. People who arrange to get laid off when they have exactly the number of weeks to become eligible and collect their 20 weeks or whatever, year after year after year.

I’m not sure why it’s considered bad form to bring this stuff up. If you support these programs and want deserving people to benefit from them, you should want us to be vigilant about ensuring they aren’t abused. My wife remarks that it’s the people who use WCB honestly who get most pissed off about the entitled cheaters. But as others have remarked, it’s not something the demographics of CP posters are exposed to a lot.

Part of this is the way the system is designed. For example seasonal employees, like fishermen, in the Maritimes are eligible for EI after fishing season. The system is built to ensure these types stick around and take up those jobs when needed.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Part of this is the way the system is designed. For example seasonal employees, like fishermen, in the Maritimes are eligible for EI after fishing season. The system is built to ensure these types stick around and take up those jobs when needed.

Yes, that’s the intention. But far more people than that exploit the system. Not only to claim EI routinely, but to work under the table while they’re claiming it.

To get back to the OP - yes, culture plays a part. Friends and co-workers who have moved here from the maritimes complain about how their people back home cheerfully and unashamedly exploit every benefit and program and loophole they can. And most people think it’s okay because of their cultural relationship with the government (ie it’s free money from Ottawa, rather than their own money raised by taxes).

[Sr. Mints]

That reminds me I haven't done my deep breathed "ooooooo, my back!" grab today in case a PI is watching.

I'd much rather discuss the financial burden of having a disability, and how these social safety nets we have are completely ####ing inadequate.

[Fuzzy14]

Speaking as a tax accountant, especially going through the pandemic...I think some of you are seriously underestimating how many people do this.

I think people would be shocked at some of the nonsense that I see.

I mean, the stories about 'gaming the system' that I could tell you from just last week would blow people away much less during the pandemic.

The look on my friend's face, who was telling me all about his aggressive write-offs, when I explained what a personal service business was was priceless.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy14

The look on my friend's face, who was telling me all about his aggressive write-offs, when I explained what a personal service business was was priceless.

Story of my life.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I worked in kitchens in my teens/early 20s as well, and would just take second hand smoke breaks. If they get to stand outside for a bit every hour, then so do I

I started smoking for one shift and they called me an idiot and gave me the same breaks after that.

[Engine09]

Did I miss the explanation of "chq"?

Anyways, abuse of these programs really pisses me off. There are people who genuinely need what they are set up to do and not to mention the huge waste of hours and money dealing with fraudulent claims.

I know a woman who has been claiming disability for close to 20 years, carries around a cane and is committed to the scam. I've seen her have a few drinks and all of a sudden the cane was forgotten while she started dancing. She simply wants to stay home on the couch and does not want to work.