Study finds NHL enforcers die 10 yrs younger than their peers

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Don't see the need to ban consensual hockey fights. Boxing is still a sport.

They aren't always consensual though. Having to fight back because someone is attacking you, or because of some mystical code that brands you a coward if you don't fight, isn't the same as giving consent.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Fighting is still prevalent in lower leagues like the ECHL and SPHL. Those guys have even less post-career resources available. Then there's the Quebec Senior league where fighting is the main selling point.

A buddy of mine gave me tickets to see the Laval Chiefs I believe in 2002 so I decided it was a great idea to bring the wife and my dad along.

Holy smokes we only watched 1 period as it lasted well over one hour and a half and all we saw were fights (mostly staged) and fans screaming at them as if they were gladiators.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Why would it be imbecilic?

Taking hitting out of hockey would be like taking tackling out of rugby.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There are still people who say “keep your head up, son” and whine whenever people disagree with monster hits that knock players out.

A big part of the problem isn’t just the NHL and what they want, it’s that there are fans who are happy to see these guys die as part of the cost of preserving the “purity” of the sport.

Applauding and condoning predatory hits is somewhat unaccepted these days, so that group is getting smaller and smaller. However, the statement "keep your head up" implies to me that it's about protecting yourself. Don't put yourself in a situation where someone can take advantage of you and lay you out, or even accidentally injure you with a normal body check. At the very least, be ready for a body check in the best possible way to avoid injury. To me that seems pretty sensible.

[MoneyGuy]

I don’t buy the argument that hockey is rough and therefore fighting is necessary to provide a means of enforcement. Fighting is banned in university hockey and they provide a rough, high-calibre game. NFL and CFL football is more physical and those leagues don’t let those mammoth brutes go at it.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There are still people who say “keep your head up, son” and whine whenever people disagree with monster hits that knock players out.

A big part of the problem isn’t just the NHL and what they want, it’s that there are fans who are happy to see these guys die as part of the cost of preserving the “purity” of the sport.

I don't really have a problem with a big check, accepting that they have already done a lot to protect the head from big checks.

But for probably 10 years now, at the 3-5 games per year I get to, I have made a point of sitting down quietly during a fight. Fighting needs to be treated the same way a hit to the head is, 5 minutes + game misconduct + a fine + an automatic hearing that normally in 3 games on average, and they need to make if very clear to the NHLPA that they will be doing this months in advance of starting.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Zarley

That said, spontaneous fights are an integral part of the game and removing fighting from hockey would be as imbecilic as getting rid of hitting.

Huh?

A player having to fight after laying a clean hit is one of the stupidest things in sport, and frankly makes the sport look softer.

[Reggie Dunlop]

A 51-year old Donald Brashear still plays

https://www.thehockeybeast.com/world...roys-two-guys/

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Huh?

A player having to fight after laying a clean hit is one of the stupidest things in sport, and frankly makes the sport look softer.

I agree with this, but what about a dirty, predatory hit and not being penalized? I don't agree with fighting for the sake of fighting, but is the refs / league not protecting the players from predatory hits, players have to regulate themselves? I still think that Trouba hit was predatory, but refs, league, fans all thought that was clean. So, IDK.

[Azure]

I don't think you need to 'ban' fighting to eliminate these issues.

Most enforcers are gone so that kind of fighting is being eliminated by itself.

A couple rule changes like a ban on fighting after a hit could be explored.

At this point point you'd have to think stupid hits are going to create more long-term issues than fighting will.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I agree with this, but what about a dirty, predatory hit and not being penalized? I don't agree with fighting for the sake of fighting, but is the refs / league not protecting the players from predatory hits, players have to regulate themselves? I still think that Trouba hit was predatory, but refs, league, fans all thought that was clean. So, IDK.

If the quality of officiating in the NHL (for example) got better, do you believe that fighting would disappear?

I don't.

The officials and the NHL need to protect players from predatory &/or illegal hits, but frankly so do the players.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Don't see the need to ban consensual hockey fights. Boxing is still a sport.

Agreed. Especially now where the old-school enforcer roles are virtually extinct and staged fights don’t really happen anymore.

I think the current state of fighting is in a good place. It’s still part of the game. I agree that the league evolving past the point of having guys specifically for fighting is good but banning outright isn’t necessary.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Applauding and condoning predatory hits is somewhat unaccepted these days, so that group is getting smaller and smaller. However, the statement "keep your head up" implies to me that it's about protecting yourself. Don't put yourself in a situation where someone can take advantage of you and lay you out, or even accidentally injure you with a normal body check. At the very least, be ready for a body check in the best possible way to avoid injury. To me that seems pretty sensible.

Of course it's sensible.

But in a fast moving game, there will times when people are vulnerable. And the current rules allow for crushing hits. Blaming the victim is at least as senseless as protecting yourself is sensible.

Fighting needs to be banned. But it won't be, as long as people are hammering (and hurting) each other. They need to drastically increase the penalties for dangerous and overly aggressive hits, not only to reduce injuries, but also so that fighting (standing up for your team-mates) is no longer necessary.

Either we want to protect players from head injuries, or we do not. And for anyone who does not, I have nothing more to say to you.

[HighLifeMan]

The game is far too fast, physical and violent by nature to not have some level of policing by the players themselves.

Getting rid of fighting signals the beginning of the end for body contact all together in hockey. These players know the risks and the rewards of playing this sport.

I agree that fighting for purely entertainment purposes is stupid (staged fighting), but that's all but weaned itself out of the game at this point.

Hockey is a very special and unique sport because of it's physicality and emotion. Let's not ruin that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I agree with this, but what about a dirty, predatory hit and not being penalized? I don't agree with fighting for the sake of fighting, but is the refs / league not protecting the players from predatory hits, players have to regulate themselves? I still think that Trouba hit was predatory, but refs, league, fans all thought that was clean. So, IDK.

That is the problem IMO. Predatory hits, (including clean ones, like Trouba recently), cause injuries and demand a response. If the league won't drastically increase the penalties for predatory hits, them players will continue to take justice in their own hands.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That is the problem IMO. Predatory hits, (including clean ones, like Trouba recently), cause injuries and demand a response. If the league won't drastically increase the penalties for predatory hits, them players will continue to take justice in their own hands.

The league does need to do more. A "brain damage will continue to be escalated until people stop causing brain damage" kind of approach is not the way to go.

I wonder what role the NHLPA plays in this too. Are they pushing the league more to protect health via stiff consequences, or pushing the league to protect players from stiff consequences?

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

If the quality of officiating in the NHL (for example) got better, do you believe that fighting would disappear?

I don't.

The officials and the NHL need to protect players from predatory &/or illegal hits, but frankly so do the players.

I think it would be less, completely disappear? I don't think so as well. A lot of times it's heat of the moment, players just react. TBH, I don't want it completely ban but hope players learn to not do the predatory hits, I think those are more dangerous.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That is the problem IMO. Predatory hits, (including clean ones, like Trouba recently), cause injuries and demand a response. If the league won't drastically increase the penalties for predatory hits, them players will continue to take justice in their own hands.

Trouba kind of hit need to be eliminated especially he did targeted the head and it's not last second his opponent lower the head. He has enough time to slow down and not hit him, he has 3 of his team mates surrounded that player. It's not like if he didn't hit him, that player gonna walk around him.

[fotze2]

I used to love fights and massive Stevens hits. Holy moly, those were awesome, but like jiri, I get grossed out now. I appreciate the athleticism and all that, but barf.

Its mostly having kids in the game and secondly seeing the after effects.

I seriously think absolutely no one but players actively playing at all levels and their families get a say in this. Only people with skin in the game get a say. Owners of NHL teams, no say, extra no say. NHL players get a vote but only one of millions who play...and its anonymous. Also the kids who will never make the NHL get equal say.

I had lunch with Todd Fedoruk a while back. That dude is fataed and he knows it, he jokes about it and he's doing better than his fellow fighters. Its actually depressing as hell.

Its always the worst humans who talk about the pussification of the sport as well. They have no skin in the game, they 100% have a neckbeard, they 100% have never even had the opportunity to get into a fight in an organized sport due to being a fat big loser.

"I'll stop watching if there is no fighting!!!!"

ok there Mr. "Never had an opportunity to even possibly get a concussion because you are a fat loser who can't get to speeds that would contribute to one".

Was at a hitmen rookie camp a few years ago and these first year kids who would not make the team otherwise removed their helmets and fought, and they let them, it was a good fight, but it was kids, both sask kids, never been in a fighting league before, but they knew (their parents knew) what it meant to do this.

Both those kids made the team and still ####tily play there today.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I don’t buy the argument that hockey is rough and therefore fighting is necessary to provide a means of enforcement. Fighting is banned in university hockey and they provide a rough, high-calibre game. NFL and CFL football is more physical and those leagues don’t let those mammoth brutes go at it.

It's been a red herring for years in this debate.
I would say though.
1. I agree that the NHL should do more to enforce predatory hits. Those need to be removed with as much urgency as fighting
2. Even if it was true that the fighting is required because the NHL fails to enforce the rules of the game enough, then solve it by actually enforcing the rules. No other sport relies on players to be the ones that police themselves. It's silly.
3. The other one is that if you take out fighting you'll see a rise in stickwork. I think that's BS but even if true players aren't dying 10 years after they retire because of a slash they took to the wrist. And serious injures from high sticks are largely eliminated by the fact that almost all players (and eventually it will be all once those grandfathered in are retired) wear visors.