You’re The GM

[Flame On]

So a new coach comes in. What magical combination of the same cast of characters are they going to employ which will get vastly different results! You'll still be dealing with the disjointed assortment and overpaid players that Tre has assembled. Yes some people are underperforming, but in fact others are doing really well like Backlund and Toffoli.

Tre is so poor, that in fact he cannot even get rid of the coach, because it will mean his own marching orders (or not being re-signed) based on his abysmal coaching track record.
He's also pretty much hampered himself or anyone to the team he's made for quite a while.
I think it all hinges on whether Kylington comes back. If he does the defense is deep enough and maybe with a bounce back from Marky the team can perform with a few tweaks in the off season. If not start selling off pieces and do a retool/rebuild. I''m' experienced enough to realize the ownership group isn't going to tank rebuild ever.

[bluejays]

Again, why everyone got caught up in last offseason signings making our franchise players 30 year olds for the next 6 years is crazy. Core prices should be young. This lesson has to be learned the hard way. Once drafting those core pieces you can sign shorter term deals to fill out the team. Until we’ve drafted those franchise players moves like this show we have no sustainable plan. Look how the Leafs did it. Look at Tampa, look at Boston, look at Colorado. I’m convinced this is the only way to do it but we’ve been middling with bad signings since the Sutter gym era. The time to learn was yesterday but we’ve been so hellbent on being liked and have paid handsomely to aging players to like us that we’ve forgot to draft high to get those franchise players needed to grow with.

[Aarongavey]

Try to get something of value for the players over 30, almost all of them. Almost no championship teams are built around players over 30 these days. Try to accumulate as many young assets in the 05-07 birth year range and hope that you hit on a disproportionate number of them. Try to sign the good ones longterm to make your window as long as possible.

Use cap space generated by selling those assets to take on players so you can get more assets in that birth year range.

Try to sign Dube longterm to be a leader with that young core. Same with Pelletier and Wolf if he works out.

This won’t happen but that is what I would do. Target 26/27 as the start of your window of being truly competitive and have your salary set up so you have a 5 year window.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Try to get something of value for the players over 30, almost all of them. Almost no championship teams are built around players over 30 these days. Try to accumulate as many young assets in the 05-07 birth year range and hope that you hit on a disproportionate number of them. Try to sign the good ones longterm to make your window as long as possible.

Use cap space generated by selling those assets to take on players so you can get more assets in that birth year range.

Try to sign Dube longterm to be a leader with that young core. Same with Pelletier and Wolf if he works out.

This won’t happen but that is what I would do. Target 26/27 as the start of your window of being truly competitive and have your salary set up so you have a 5 year window.

I’d argue there is value for the players hitting 30.
Kadri may as well be Tom Wilson lite. His contract sucks but with toughness still being a trait GMs love, he has value
Markstrom coming into this year pundits had him as a Vezina type year coming. There has to be a GM or two who probably think I’m the right system he can turn around
Huberdeau has had just one bad season after multiple consistent years

All this to me means you sell these guys now, as there are positive biases in their favour. You hold on waiting for them to turn it around to sell higher and they’re a year older. If you do that you risk them not turning it around and you’re stuck with them for the duration of their contracts.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I'm the GM?

Probably the best idea of all. For the fanbase as well!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Those two points contradict each other. If there was a quick fix on the table, there still is. Every tradable player on the roster will still be a tradable player next year. Some even more so.

They certainly don’t.

Huberdeau could have been traded last year in the last year of his contract for multiple first round picks. Weegar too, although he is still movable.

Players like Hanifin, Lindholm and Backlund were worth much more with two years on their contacts than 1 year.

Huberdeau went from worth multiple first round picks to immovable.

Kadri would not have signed here if the Flames had decided to rebuild, so Monny would not have needed to be moved. So, there’s an extra first round pick.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

To answer the question there is a critical underlying assumption to be made:
- Are we assuming that, as GM, that we have the empowerment to execute the plan we think is right, inclusive of a re-build
- Or are we answering the question including an assumption that the overall mandate we are to operate under is to try to compete next season?

Very different answers depending on that assumption.

The first one.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I would have sold at the deadline. Can’t imagine anyone wouldn’t if they knew how things would have gone last night.

Selling at the deadline is the one time where you can prepare for next year while half the league is focused on this year. I’m the summer sure there might be some teams looking to rebuild but most teams will be focused on how they can make a run at the playoffs or cup next year.

How will Nashville replace Ekholm?
How will Detroit place Hronek and Bertuzzi?
How will St. Louis replace Oreilly and tarasenko?
How will Chicago replace Kane?

These are the questions so many ask when people suggest we trade guys like Backlund, Toffoli and Tanev. The teams above will replace their players with their high end draft picks and high end prospects. They will refill the cupboards with the extra picks they acquired at the deadline or use as currency to replace players.

We need a GM that gets this. If it isn’t working you aren’t suddenly getting hot mid march and winning a cup. If the team was already rolling fine go for it. We need a GM that makes that tough call to sell

Well he said they entertained doing just that but it didn't work out.

What exactly doesn't he get?

Or are you saying you have to make a call to sell and then sell regardless of what the offers are in order to prove you "get it"

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I’d argue there is value for the players hitting 30.
Kadri may as well be Tom Wilson lite. His contract sucks but with toughness still being a trait GMs love, he has value
Markstrom coming into this year pundits had him as a Vezina type year coming. There has to be a GM or two who probably think I’m the right system he can turn around
Huberdeau has had just one bad season after multiple consistent years

All this to me means you sell these guys now, as there are positive biases in their favour. You hold on waiting for them to turn it around to sell higher and they’re a year older. If you do that you risk them not turning it around and you’re stuck with them for the duration of their contracts.

Ya I don’t disagree that there is value in guys over 30 being complimentary pieces but they can’t be the core. Bruins will challenge that notion this year but it has held for every championship team since Detroit in 2008.

Flames should fire the guys over 30 to whatever team will give them value for those guys.

[just_tim]

Originally Posted by Flame On

So a new coach comes in. What magical combination of the same cast of characters are they going to employ which will get vastly different results!

The game has changed and Sutter is simply behind. It’s a pure speed game now. Man-D does not work. With the speed and criss-cross side-to-side offensive schemes of today’s best offences, man-D means both defenders and the center are always chasing and missing assignments. It leaves goalies naked. Dryden or Roy would look bad in this scheme. It also means the center has to stay out of the dirty offensive areas so he can get back on D. This leads to a simple offence with shots from the outside. Sutter does not read the game well anymore and he loves his big boys, his 4th line favourites. Virtually no in-game adjustments and a dogmatic stubbornness to remain with the plan that hasn’t worked from game 1. It also means that young talent isn’t rotated and evaluated. Wouldn’t matter how good the Wranglers players are, they’re not getting a good look. A new coach would need to be a talent evaluator, a student of the modern game. Use and improve the players, adjust systems to maximize talent and not simply force square pegs into round holes.

[bluejays]

One more thing to add, someone in the management echelon has to start planting the seed in the media that this team can’t be “retooling” constantly and they have to endure a few seasons of bottom feeding. I’m so aggravated by no media pressure on this topic. It seems the media eats out of managements hand so much so that ownership is reluctant to do a full rebuild with the ever overhanging “season ticket holders wouldn’t like it” moniker. If there was more media pressure and people began to accept it perhaps ownership would get the message that it’s a necessary evil.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Ya I don’t disagree that there is value in guys over 30 being complimentary pieces but they can’t be the core. Bruins will challenge that notion this year but it has held for every championship team since Detroit in 2008.

Flames should fire the guys over 30 to whatever team will give them value for those guys.

Agreed fully.

[Dion]

I'd talk to all the UFA's on the team and ask them if they would sign an extension. If not then explore trade possibilities to see what you can get.

[Vinny01]

I hope for the highest pick possible in this draft and the big thing is addressing the 6 pending UFA’s. I would make room for Coronato and Zary. Wolf has one more year in the minors for me then he is on the team in 24/25.

I think the team needs to choose between Backlund and Lindholm. Can they get Backs on a 3 year extension at a cheaper rate than he is on now? Does Lindholm want $9-10M for 8 years? I feel this team has committed to Huberdeau and Kadri and cannot sign another player to a massive deal that starts in his age 29/30 season.

Tanev could be offered a 1-2 year extension at a bit of a discount to stay otherwise I shop him. Hanifin I would consider keeping if he signs for under $7M but if he wants more then he should be shopped.

Toffoli absolutely should be shopped for futures. He will be an overpay on his next deal and should not be walked for nothing. Zadorov is the one guy I might roll the dice with walking to free agency, maybe keeping, or certainly moving if offered an overpay.

The team needs to be retooled and get younger. I am super optimistic on our top 4 prospects and with this season being a dud we are poised to add a much better prospect this year they can be a key piece to the future.

As for Sutter he should have been hired instead of Bill Peters. Take that 2019 team until the Gaudreau/Tkachuk contracts expired. He came too late and it is likely time to part ways. This team needs to get younger and deploy a system that helps maximize the abilities of Huberdeau.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

They certainly don’t.

Huberdeau could have been traded last year in the last year of his contract for multiple first round picks. Weegar too, although he is still movable.

Players like Hanifin, Lindholm and Backlund were worth much more with two years on their contacts than 1 year.

Huberdeau went from worth multiple first round picks to immovable.

Kadri would not have signed here if the Flames had decided to rebuild, so Monny would not have needed to be moved. So, there’s an extra first round pick.

A rebuild is still there. Your specific points don't change that. And as far as Hanifin and Lindholm are concerned, I disagree - they will be very valuable next year as well, with salary retained. Also, a guy like Hanifin is probably easier to move in the summer.

[GranteedEV]

The very first thing I would do is bend over backwards to sign Coronato. If he needs a roster spot for that, I give him every assurance a roster spot will be available for him to make a run at the Calder Trophy should he sign. This team cannot afford to lose another key prospect at a position of need.

The next thing I do is drop salary. A team that is not a top five team in the NHL has no excuse to be right up against the cap ceiling. This is exclusive of whether the plan going forward is to rebuild or not, much of which depends on the draft lottery results. Assuming the Flames draft 11th-14th, then they absolutely need to move out positive value bodies like Hanifin, Tanev, Coleman, Toffoli etc for draft picks or high-end prospects going into next season. If we can find a taker for Kadri at ~20% retained, we make that deal. We're probably stuck with Huberdeau, but we accept that he's at best a #2 option on a good team.

I probably keep these seven guys:

Backlund
Mangiapane
Lindholm
Kylington
Weegar
Pellettier
Ruzicka

Even if the remaining roster is still not bad enough to outright tank in 2023-24 they will need cap flexibility to acquire draft picks.

Now from the above list, Backlund and Mangiapane can probably stay a line combo in the future, and Ruzicka/Pellettier/Kylington/Weegar just need to play wherever makes sense. It's Lindholm who is our best chance at a huge return at the trade deadline, so we need to maximize his trade value.

Once we've traded Lindholm, the rebuild officially begins. There probably won't be a bedard in the next few drafts but you stay patient, accrue draft capital and let Tod Button and his team maximize your prospect pool. You keep the team as close to the salary cap floor as possible until a Hart Trophy calibre franchise playe or two emerges, and even then you keep the team below the cap ceiling until it is overwhelmingly obvious your team is a Stanley Cup favourite. Ideally you acquire both a #1 centre and a #1 defenseman from a top ten draft pick.

The last thing I would emphasize is goalies under the age of 32. No more senior citizens on retirement deals. If Dustin Wolf is your guy you make him your guy. You keep drafting and drafting and drafting.

As for a coach, you let Sutter play out his deal at least until the final year, and then you see how Mitch Love or Cail Maclean look in the interim, while keeping your ears out across the minors to give a Dean Evason type a shot as an assistant. There's no magic formula but good coaches know how to win in the minors, so you're not going to end up with a Ward/Gulutzan type who falls upwards. And you do your due diligence on character, no more Bill Peters fiascos

[Winsor_Pilates]

I'd step down.
Sometimes both sides just need a change. You've gave it an honest effort, had some bad luck, made good moves & some mistakes.
But overall it just feels like the right time for change.

[nieuwy-89]

Originally Posted by bluejays

One more thing to add, someone in the management echelon has to start planting the seed in the media that this team can’t be “retooling” constantly and they have to endure a few seasons of bottom feeding. I’m so aggravated by no media pressure on this topic. It seems the media eats out of managements hand so much so that ownership is reluctant to do a full rebuild with the ever overhanging “season ticket holders wouldn’t like it” moniker. If there was more media pressure and people began to accept it perhaps ownership would get the message that it’s a necessary evil.

The FAN960 guys are the worst at building and promoting the narrative that the fans won’t accept a rebuild. Their trade deadline coverage was all predicated on the Flames adding roster players and going all-in. They completely ignore the perspective of selling and re-stocking draft capital. It was really odd. It supports your theory that the local traditional media guys are tied to closely to management.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Dion

I'd talk to all the UFA's on the team and ask them if they would sign an extension. If not then explore trade possibilities to see what you can get.

Thats a terrible idea. Maybe Lindholm. Let the rest walk.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

The FAN960 guys are the worst at building and promoting the narrative that the fans won’t accept a rebuild. Their trade deadline coverage was all predicated on the Flames adding roster players and going all-in. They completely ignore the perspective of selling and re-stocking draft capital. It was really odd. It supports your theory that the local traditional media guys are tied to closely to management.

I’m not from Calgary so I don’t listen to the radio shows. I just see the print media and they’re all corporate schlubs. So while most of this board rips guys like Francis with anything he says, sometimes those guys are the ones you need to rock the boat. It’s the guys who are attached to their jobs too much who just want to be cushy with management which grate my nerves. Do your journalistic jobs!