What should the CBCs mandate be

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Littlest Hobo and Degrassi reruns on loop.

Was Littlest Hobo on CBC? I remember it being CTV when I was growing up.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Mandate looks good, it's the budget that may need work.
At a glance, the budget looks enormous but I have no idea what it "should be" to deliver that mandate.
Need more info

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by Locke

I really dislike the CBC but I have no intent to support a defunding of it.

I think a National Broadcaster is an important element so long as they're not carrying Government water.

Agree with this 100% but the CBC is absolutely carrying Government water. It’s been years since they’ve been anywhere close to objective with their coverage, and under the Trudeau government they have basically become the Ministry of Truth.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Redliner

Agree with this 100% but the CBC is absolutely carrying Government water. It’s been years since they’ve been anywhere close to objective with their coverage, and under the Trudeau government they have basically become the Ministry of Truth.

You don’t honestly believe this, do you? That would be profoundly stupid.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Redliner

Agree with this 100% but the CBC is absolutely carrying Government water. It’s been years since they’ve been anywhere close to objective with their coverage, and under the Trudeau government they have basically become the Ministry of Truth.

What?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I don't mind CBCNN and I have it on in the background most of the time while I am working from home. Marketplace is a decent program although I feel like the stories/investigative stuff has dropped off in terms of quality post-pandemic. They should bring back a show like Street Cents to provide financial education to youth (I remember watching a lot of that stuff.) The sports programming is generally very good and I enjoy watching the amateur athletics such as speed skating, sledding sports, track and field etc.

For me they really lack in terms of compelling tv shows and movies though. Maybe they could focus on development improvement for that stuff.

I echo Azure and Powder above. Sound statements into CBC's mandates.

On a lighter note, I was on Street Cents about 15 years ago, testing snowboards. Some of those crap decks were 'fit for the pit'.

Beachcombers, Danger Bay, and comedic icon Lorne Michael's & KitH.

[cam_wmh]

I'll add, I feel the CBC plays a vital role in our Canadian Society. From the many radio channels, that hit grass-roots; music, the arts and culture.

Additionally, a contrast to the right of centre media channels out there. I feel it's necessary to have both sides of the political paradigm be easily accessible.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Allow CBC to fail and Canada takes a huge step toward being nothing more than a United States wannabe where culture and politics is five to ten years behind what happens south of the border. Do not allow the Canadian culture and identity to be crushed by the sheer weight of the flow of entertainment/infotainment out of the southern neighbor. Guard against this at all costs. You'll become nothing but the frog in the pot on the stove.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Allow CBC to fail and Canada takes a huge step toward being nothing more than a United States wannabe where culture and politics is five to ten years behind what happens south of the border. Do not allow the Canadian culture and identity to be crushed by the sheer weight of the flow of entertainment/infotainment out of the southern neighbor. Guard against this at all costs. You'll become nothing but the frog in the pot on the stove.

I’d say we are the frog with or without the CBC. As a factual source of news they can be a loud enough voice but as a proponent of culture it’s just pissing in the wind.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Was Littlest Hobo on CBC? I remember it being CTV when I was growing up.

It was definitely a CTV production, not CBC. I believe it was also syndicated on TVO in Ontario. I don't recall it ever being on CBC, but maybe I am wrong.

[timun]

I think it's difficult to have meaningful conversation about the CBC's budget and mandate when the average Canadian hasn't a clue what it actually includes. In my experience people tend to take issue with the fictional English TV programming, and think that's where money should be cut, but the real savings to be achieved here are minimal. It's much like people kvetching about the City of Calgary budget thinking we ought to slash frivolous arts and parks & rec funding, not knowing/understanding that ~80% of the annual budget is police, fire, transit and roads. If you don't touch those sacred cows you're barely making a dent in any meaningful budget cuts.

Likewise the CBC isn't just the English television network, it's also a French TV network, English cable news channel, French cable news channel, and four radio networks. Costs are roughly equally spilt between English TV, French TV, English radio and French radio. The radio networks earn no revenue. The English and French TV networks make some money (~$430M last fiscal year).

The most common refrain I hear from people is "I would cut the (English fictional) TV programming, but keep the news, current affairs, documentary and radio work", which fiscally... is pretty much just a wash.

As I said in the Canadian federal politics thread, by design the CBC is meant to produce the kind of content that private broadcasters won't, the unpopular stuff, the unprofitable stuff, so arguments like 14Roman14's "let it sink or swim" are, at best, simplistic if not naive or ignorant.

I honestly don't have a problem with the level of funding they get now, nor the mandate they have now, and I don't mind the idea of doing more active funding drives like PBS in the States does, but the level of funding would be unsustainably low if per-capita government spending was slashed to what PBS get. They make it workable because the US market is ten times ours.

I also think people need to be much better critical thinkers when they parrot crap from right-wing media about the CBC. They need to ask themselves why their favourite media outlets even talk about the CBC. (Hint: pretty much the same reasons why the same sort of dingbattery in the US happens, e.g. the blatantly hypocritical and biased nonsense Fox News says about CNN and MSNBC; they'll whinge about how bad "the mainstream/'liberal' media" are, claim to be the voice of "fair and balanced" coverage, and then simultaneously crow about how they have the highest ratings as if being the highest rated cable news network somehow doesn't also make them "the mainstream media"...)

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

I echo Azure and Powder above. Sound statements into CBC's mandates.

On a lighter note, I was on Street Cents about 15 years ago, testing snowboards. Some of those crap decks were 'fit for the pit'.

Beachcombers, Danger Bay, and comedic icon Lorne Michael's & KitH.

I didn't think Street Cents made it past Y2K, but apparently it did go for 17 seasons, though the last half may have been quite different.

Sounds like it's coming back in some form...TikTok. I hope Jonathan Torrens can make a cameo
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/stree...ktok-1.6375806

[GGG]

Originally Posted by timun

I think it's difficult to have meaningful conversation about the CBC's budget and mandate when the average Canadian hasn't a clue what it actually includes. In my experience people tend to take issue with the fictional English TV programming, and think that's where money should be cut, but the real savings to be achieved here are minimal. It's much like people kvetching about the City of Calgary budget thinking we ought to slash frivolous arts and parks & rec funding, not knowing/understanding that ~80% of the annual budget is police, fire, transit and roads. If you don't touch those sacred cows you're barely making a dent in any meaningful budget cuts.

Likewise the CBC isn't just the English television network, it's also a French TV network, English cable news channel, French cable news channel, and four radio networks. Costs are roughly equally spilt between English TV, French TV, English radio and French radio. The radio networks earn no revenue. The English and French TV networks make some money (~$430M last fiscal year).

The most common refrain I hear from people is "I would cut the (English fictional) TV programming, but keep the news, current affairs, documentary and radio work", which fiscally... is pretty much just a wash.

As I said in the Canadian federal politics thread, by design the CBC is meant to produce the kind of content that private broadcasters won't, the unpopular stuff, the unprofitable stuff, so arguments like 14Roman14's "let it sink or swim" are, at best, simplistic if not naive or ignorant.

I honestly don't have a problem with the level of funding they get now, nor the mandate they have now, and I don't mind the idea of doing more active funding drives like PBS in the States does, but the level of funding would be unsustainably low if per-capita government spending was slashed to what PBS get. They make it workable because the US market is ten times ours.

I also think people need to be much better critical thinkers when they parrot crap from right-wing media about the CBC. They need to ask themselves why their favourite media outlets even talk about the CBC. (Hint: pretty much the same reasons why the same sort of dingbattery in the US happens, e.g. the blatantly hypocritical and biased nonsense Fox News says about CNN and MSNBC; they'll whinge about how bad "the mainstream/'liberal' media" are, claim to be the voice of "fair and balanced" coverage, and then simultaneously crow about how they have the highest ratings as if being the highest rated cable news network somehow doesn't also make them "the mainstream media"...)

It really sounds like you are saying fictional English TV is a break even operation here as it would be a wash fiscally. If that is the case then the private corps would be picking these shows up. (Like corner gas, new degrassi, even newer degrassi etc). So if this is the case then it shouldn’t be competing with the private sector and if I am misunderstanding you and you are saying fictional TV doesn’t make money then it should be cut as it adds little value when looking at the mandate.

[timun]

No, what I'm saying is at least the fictional English TV programming brings in some revenue to offset its production costs, whereas whatever non-fictional productions you think the CBC should be making instead will almost assuredly bring in less revenue and you end up essentially back at square one with respect to the overall amount of government funding put into it.

You do, in a roundabout way, bring up a seemingly eternal conundrum in Canadian broadcasting: the argument that if shows make money then the CBC shouldn't be making them, because ostensibly if it would make money then a private broadcaster would/should make it. If the CBC's exclusive domain should be "stuff that no one watches" then, again, you should be comfortable with the idea that government funding won't go down.

You bring up a couple amusing examples in Corner Gas and Degrassi, neither of which would have existed if not for government intervention in the broadcasting industry, and one of which wouldn't have existed if not for the CBC itself. CTV produced Corner Gas because it had to fulfill the bare minimum CanCon rules. It was not a money-maker, it was just a token effort on Bell's effort. Degrassi, or rather "newer Degrassi" and "even newer Degrassi" are hilarious examples of Bell monetizing a franchise that would not have existed if not for the fact CBC produced the original shows in their 1980s heyday. If the CBC didn't put the groundwork in CTV never would have made Degrassi spinoffs.

You're also presenting an entirely false premise that "if fictional TV doesn't make money then it should be cut because it adds little value when looking at the CBC's mandate". I don't know how you reach that conclusion (maybe you're trying to be devil's advocate?). Re-read the mandate:

• a wide range of programming that informs, enlightens and entertains;
• be predominantly and distinctively Canadian,
• reflect Canada and its regions to national and regional audiences, while serving the special needs of those regions,
• actively contribute to the flow and exchange of cultural expression,
• contribute to shared national consciousness and identity,
• reflect the multicultural and multiracial nature of Canada;

If you honestly believe fictional stories don't help fulfill those goals you're going to have to hold my hand and walk me through it.

[btimbit]

Canadian BBC would be ideal for me. Quality news with good programming, but I realize that's easier said than done because, unlike the UK, there's not really an incentive for stars to stay vs leave for Hollywood.

That said I really have no problem with the CBC as it is now

Still though, I volunteer to host Top Gear Canada. CBC, just pm me and I'll get back to you

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Was Littlest Hobo on CBC? I remember it being CTV when I was growing up.

You are right It was CTV not CBC

[GGG]

Originally Posted by timun

No, what I'm saying is at least the fictional English TV programming brings in some revenue to offset its production costs, whereas whatever non-fictional productions you think the CBC should be making instead will almost assuredly bring in less revenue and you end up essentially back at square one with respect to the overall amount of government funding put into it.

You do, in a roundabout way, bring up a seemingly eternal conundrum in Canadian broadcasting: the argument that if shows make money then the CBC shouldn't be making them, because ostensibly if it would make money then a private broadcaster would/should make it. If the CBC's exclusive domain should be "stuff that no one watches" then, again, you should be comfortable with the idea that government funding won't go down.

You bring up a couple amusing examples in Corner Gas and Degrassi, neither of which would have existed if not for government intervention in the broadcasting industry, and one of which wouldn't have existed if not for the CBC itself. CTV produced Corner Gas because it had to fulfill the bare minimum CanCon rules. It was not a money-maker, it was just a token effort on Bell's effort. Degrassi, or rather "newer Degrassi" and "even newer Degrassi" are hilarious examples of Bell monetizing a franchise that would not have existed if not for the fact CBC produced the original shows in their 1980s heyday. If the CBC didn't put the groundwork in CTV never would have made Degrassi spinoffs.

You're also presenting an entirely false premise that "if fictional TV doesn't make money then it should be cut because it adds little value when looking at the CBC's mandate". I don't know how you reach that conclusion (maybe you're trying to be devil's advocate?). Re-read the mandate:

• a wide range of programming that informs, enlightens and entertains;
• be predominantly and distinctively Canadian,
• reflect Canada and its regions to national and regional audiences, while serving the special needs of those regions,
• actively contribute to the flow and exchange of cultural expression,
• contribute to shared national consciousness and identity,
• reflect the multicultural and multiracial nature of Canada;

If you honestly believe fictional stories don't help fulfill those goals you're going to have to hold my hand and walk me through it.

Fictional programming does not inform or enlighten and is debatable whether it entertains.

I disagree that any of it is distinctly Canadian. There is a lot of programming on the immigrant experience but it certainly isnt distinctly Canadian. It is the same immigrant story as any other setting. One my argue that immigrant stories are currently under represented general so the shows should exist and I don’t think that is unreasonable but it certainly isn’t distinctly Canadian.

APN does a better job than CBC at First Nations programming. Disney+ does a better job right now.

I do agree with you on one thing though that things like corner gas and new and newer degrassi would not exist without funding. This funding rather than being directed to a network who then directs to producers should instead be addressed through Can Con rules as a tax on the private sector or as a direct subsidy to creators.

As I have said previously I am perfectly happy with the government spending on News and Radio as unique products which aren’t delivered by the private sector. I am perfectly happy with spending more on news delivery

There is just no reason to go into the realm of producing and distributing fictional TV or re-broadcasting hockey.

[La Flames Fan]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Love the podcasts, love the highlighting of the local talent on their arts programming, and I think they have good news coverage. Can probably cut down on TV show production though.

I've been having this conversation on Twitter about show production getting away from being so Eastern Canada focused. It seems every show is filmed out there, except Heartland of course, but ugh. They need to expand beyond the bubble out there. It really hurts Canadian talent to the west.

What I DO like about CBC shows is that it stars and casts Canadian talent who can't necessarily star in US shows or don't get the opportunity to audition for starring roles on big American content that films up here.

Should the shows be better? Yup. I don't know how some of them get to air, but that's a different conversation.

[timun]

Originally Posted by GGG

Fictional programming does not inform or enlighten and is debatable whether it entertains.

[...]

There is just no reason to go into the realm of producing and distributing fictional TV or re-broadcasting hockey.

Lol, like I said you're going to have to walk me through this, with a much more convincing argument than "fiction doesn't inform or enlighten and there's no reason to do it".

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by GGG

Fictional programming does not inform or enlighten and is debatable whether it entertains.

This is 100% true. But it's 100% true, for the private sector and US entertainment industry as well.

Originally Posted by La Flames Fan

Should the shows be better? Yup. I don't know how some of them get to air, but that's a different conversation.

Is Hudson and Rex really that much worse than some of the police procedurals down south?

Isn't the campiness and corniness of Murdock Mysteries part of its charm. In the same fashion as a soap opera or telenouvella?

As a side, no show, Canadian, American, British or wherever has ever done cameos as well as Corner Gas.