How much time should top-line Toffoli be given to connect?

[shutout]

If its a matter of zone entries and adding some puck carrying capability it would be the answer to just switch Kadri and Lindholm.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Lindholm has worse numbers and has been on the ice for 0 goals for at even strength so far. They haven't been great as a line, but I don't know if this is all on Toffoli.

The line could use more speed though, but the Kadri line has been great so hard to split them up.

This is part of the problem.

None of Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli are particularly fast and I think they've had issues transitioning from defense to offense due to slowness in the netural zone. Having a hard time getting clean zone entries and getting clogged up in the neutral zone.

Dube-Kadri-Mangiapane are all pretty quick and have been attacking with pace.

So one line is all speed, one line is lacking. I still thinking flipping Kadri and Lindholm or Toffoli and Mangiapane would be interesting.

[EVERLAST]

Chemistry!!!
It takes time. By game 82 it'll be a non topic.

When all concerned learn to play a 200 ft game [defense first) and then transitioning to offense we be good yo!!!

I think the worries are somewhat valid but me thinks Sutter knows what he's doing .

Right now the farmer is planting seeds , watering them, loving them and waiting for his harvest to produce.

Is this not what a good coach does? That's what Darryl and his 2 cups do!!!

This team by game 82 will be kicking butt and talking names.

Were a more mature team ( not old) and we should produce results . My concerns are activating our D to its potential.

We have 3 d men who shoot bombs in Stone, Raz and Weegs. Utilizing those weapons is important. When we can activate offense from our D that means out forwards are backchecking effectively which helps the D and our goalies .....thats a beautiful thing.

We have some great Tenaciously talented new names here there is no reason to panic.

The great Ken King said as much " we don't panic here".

Pretty level headed IMO......just like Bingo.

Go Flames Go.

[Bingo]

Yeah I don't do a thing with the top two lines as it stands.

Toffoli has actually been quite good, and I doubt Lindholm has forgotten how to play hockey. He'll bounce back and when he does we can better assess the top line chemistry.

Lindholm is key for that line in transition, and he's really fighting the puck.

[Mathgod]

I say leave things for now; 20 or 25 games into the season make an assessment on how things are going, and make adjustments if necessary.

[btimbit]

The guy leads the team in goals, point per game, and more importantly, I like how every other line looks right now and don't want to split anyone else up

[Calgary4LIfe]

I was hoping for instant chemistry too, but sometimes things take a little longer. Right now, there is no need to panic. Flames have been winning, and winning against top teams at that. This takes the bulk of the pressure off.


Let's look at the lines in general.


Huberdeau - Lindholm - Toffoli: Ok, this line is not 'clicking', but I also don't think they have been awful. Huberdeau is coughing up the puck quite a lot, Lindholm has certainly looked lost quite often, and Toffoli either doesn't get into the right spots that Huberdeau is looking for, or is taking too long to shoot. However, we have all seen this line 'click' in short spurts, and it was glorious. Lindholm has had a few monster shifts from preseason until now that nobody wants to talk about, and Toffoli has been scoring. So this is either players that clash and won't fit, or it is a chemistry issue. Flames are winning, so let's just be patient and see if chemistry can develop.


Dube - Kadri - Mangiapane: This has been performing like a top line some nights. I would hate to break them up. The easy rotation is either Kadri and Lindholm switch spots, or Mangiapane and Toffoli switch spots. However, because this line seems to work well together, let's leave them alone, especially since the Flames are winning.


Lewis - Backlund - Coleman: None of these players are a fit for the top line in my opinion (maybe Backlund, but I always found it strange to try and convert one of the NHL's best defensive centers to the wing). This line is doing well, and Lewis has been better than I thought he would be in this spot. Don't have an issue here. Tough match-up line.


Lucic - Rooney - Ritchie: This line is also contributing in many ways. Until they don't, you ride this line. They are helping this team win.


You have one disjointed line, and 3 fairly good lines. Having your top line performing well is crucial, so if this continues, of course you look at breaking up another line and seeing if the pieces can fit better. I just think that at this point, it is still a bit early to break up anything else that seems to be working, especially considering that the top line has 3 players who have never played together. The same can be said for most of the lines, and Sutter even made mention of that a few days ago stating that only one pair is still together (winger - centre combo - and that would be Backlund-Coleman).



I think you wait until after the first road trip to break them up, unless the Flames go on a losing skid. Chemistry seems to develop more on the road. That's what I am personally waiting for. There is simply no need to press the panic button yet. Winning makes this a minor issue, not a glaring one.

[AustinL_NHL]

Honestly I think Toffoli has thus far been the best player on his line by a decent margin. Guy could be at 10 goals already with the amount of golden chances he's had. Also shooting the puck a ton the last 3 games (14 shots).

Lindholm has been hot garbage and Huberdeau has been very underwhelming, but I'm not concerned in the slightest about either of them.

No idea why Toffoli is getting flack though.

[Flamesfan05]

Look like Lindholm is missing Johnny G big time
Huberdeau has not impressed.
Toffoli is what he is. He is actually the only one on the line meeting expectations

[camm13]

The only changed I'd make would be Kadri/Lindholm swap. Maybe give it till the 10 game mark but "Let them build chemistry", "Give it more time!" if you've played it the game, you know some players just don't mesh well, giving it half the season isn't going to magically produce chemistry.

[peter12]

This thread is really why I love Flames fans though. Nervous and insecure even when things are really really really good.

[Reggie Dunlop]

It's too early to panic about Huberdeau.

[GreenLantern2814]

He has three goals in 5 games, I’d hate to see what he looks like when he figures it out.

[FanIn80]

it's too early to panic about panicking.

[Ashes]

I agree with those that say the first line just needs more time to gel together and learn how to play off each other. It hasn't helped that we've played a bunch of top notch teams to start the season. Kadri on the first line sounds great in theory, but breaking up his line just seems ridiculous right now considering how dominant they've been. Just wait until this team feasts on the chicago, vancouver and arizona's of the league, the top line as constructed just needs a break out game to get their confidence going 5v5 IMO.

Also I found it interesting on the Post-Game show from the Carolina game that Pat mentioned there's been a bug going around the room and that Lindholm may have caught it. He's got a lot more to give, so that matches the eye test for me at least.

It's early, lot's of time to find chemistry and more importantly, we're winning even without a dominant first line 5v5 right now. What I would like to see is for Huberdeau to shoot more, but I feel like he's a very similar comparable in that way to a Tanguay/Huselius and we should just get used to him always looking for the pass. His linemates are too good and too experienced not to figure out how to play with him, just gotta give it more than 5 games.

[Itse]

At any given time half the players in every team are playing below their average.

In any 5 game sample there's at least one guy who visibly struggles. Slow starts to seasons are nothing special.

Unless the team goes on a losing streak, I'd give it at least 20 games before even starting to worry about line chemistry.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Steve Macfarlane

The top line has been all over the map. Strong underlying numbers in one or two games only. Toffoli hasn't looked like he can do anything with Huberdeau's passes at times.

Some people want them broken up. But should they be given a bit of time considering they're winning and seem to be contributing in other circumstances, like Toffoli's OT winner and powerplay contributions?

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/calgary...na-hurricanes/

He's on pace for 49-33-82. That seems acceptable and certainly doesn't put me in panic mode.

[Macho0978]

The problem is everyone wants it all. Top line that matches any teams top line and depth.

Does anyone think our first line this year will be as good as last year? I really doubt they can do what they did last year.

On the other hand, Kadri has almost as many points as Monahan did last year. Isn't nice having 2 top lines?

I'm ok to leave it as is for now. Stats at 5 on 5 for the big line aren't great but only Lindholm has poor numbers. He has been known to get hot.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

The problem is everyone wants it all. Top line that matches any teams top line and depth.

Does anyone think our first line this year will be as good as last year? I really doubt they can do what they did last year.

On the other hand, Kadri has almost as many points as Monahan did last year. Isn't nice having 2 top lines?

I'm ok to leave it as is for now. Stats at 5 on 5 for the big line aren't great but only Lindholm has poor numbers. He has been known to get hot.

With maybe a little movement here and there between on the wings I think our top 2 lines match up against anyone - AND - our third line in a shutdown role (with some scoring) also matches up.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Look like Lindholm is missing Johnny G big time
Huberdeau has not impressed.
Toffoli is what he is. He is actually the only one on the line meeting expectations

Not sure I'd sum it up like that.

Huberdeau has tried to create a lot that hasn't happened. I see that lack of connectivity more on Lindholm's play to date than Huberdeau.

And year interestingly enough, the guy that I thought would hamper this line's transition has had a solid start to the season (Toffoli)

Huberdeau is a set up guy. How can a set up guy succeed when is transition partner if fumbling the puck every time he gets it?