Training Camp Day 19 notes

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

i'm sure it will get better but the games i watched we sure miss him bringing the puck in on the PP.

That was a major issue IMO with Gaudreaus tenure overall. The teams over reliance on using Gaudreau for Zone entries on the PP. It ultimately depended on how Johnny felt game in and game out.

But I've always said since before the trade was made that Lindholm had amazing zone entry data and they should have used him more for that. Now this will happen. I like their entry look so far. It does need honing through practice though.

[Heavy Jack]

Yea I think some fans are going to be pleasantly surprised with Huby, the dude makes beautiful plays and can standout on a goal scoring play as a 2nd assist like he did earlier in preseason on the Toffoli goal. I think we will have quite a few high light reel goals and plays this year, Kadri has silky mitts too and Weegar likes to get involved as well which I think will push Ras and Hanifin. We’re in for an exciting and different team that will be damn near as high-scoring as the last!! That’s my opinion of course :P

[sa226]

I'd argue the hole is on the second line. I like Dube, but I don't really think he is a top six player. Yet.

Now is his opportunity to snag it, but If they can add a player that pushes him down the lineup, the depth of the top 9 is that much better.

Toffoli is already a polarizing figure, but say what you will about him, he us a proven top 6 winger. Far from elite, but a proven top 6 forward. It seems they're having a hard time finding the right fit for him.

That Backlund Coleman Mangiapane line was so good last year that I think Dube is the best player to try and replicate their effectiveness. He kind of plays like Mangiapane, without the finish.

It's weird to look at the lineup of such a good team and see such a glaring hole on top 9 winger. But it's there. I think we were all penciling in Pelletier or Milano in there, but neither came even close to earning it. So here we are. Hopefully Treliving has some more wizard magic up his sleeve.

[Enoch Root]

Except no team has all 9 spots in their top 9 filled perfectly. Here is a projected top 9 for the Stanley Cup Champs:

Lehkonen - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Nichushkin - Newhook - Rodriguez
Meyers - Compher - O'Connor

Lehkonen is 27 and has never had a 20 goal season. His best season ever was 19-19-38 last year in 74 games. Compare that to Toffoli

Newhook is a 21 YO with 76 career games and 13 career goals. Good young player, but risk for a 2C

Meyers has 5 career games, Compher is a 30 pt guy, and O'Connor's career high is 24 pts. So their 3rd line had 57 pts last year COMBINED. Backlund, Coleman and Lewis had 88.

No team is without holes. And every team has Toffoli and or Dube type players in their top 6. The Flames' top 9 depth is as good as any in the league. Though it won't be a surprise if Treliving adds to it.

Rodriguez is 29 and last year he hit 10 goals for the first time in his career (19). Compare him to Dube.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Young Guns

More like a hole in the top 6 rather than the third line.

100%

Top line RW would slot everyone in the right spot.

Toffoli down with Mangiapane and Kadri.

Dube with Backlund and Coleman.

[skcli]

Markstrom can make or break this team. I hope it will be the former. GFG!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dammage79

You're under estimating Huberdeau. And I don't think the Flames are going to miss Gaudreau at all. Not in the slightest.

Only real production dip should be looked at Kadri vs Tkachuk. But end of the day the overall 200ft game of Kadri is going to prevent a lot more goals than we need to score.

So we may see a dip in GF but we are going to see a much larger dip in GA.

It's going to tip in the Flames favor.

I'd wager the Flames GA vs GF percentage will be about equal at the end of the year.

Yeah, last year their differential was +85, which was 2nd overall. For me, this is the number that matters, and goals for is only half the equation.

The question for the Flames this year will be: can they reproduce that? Can they continue to be an elite team with respect to differential. I don't know if they'll hit 9+85 again, but I bet they are in the top 5 again.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

i'm sure it will get better but the games i watched we sure miss him bringing the puck in on the PP.

Yeah I'm not sure I will miss the predictable drop pass followed by button hook.

[flambers]

Challenge will be scoring, Flames lack wingers...

I would think they are exploring

Something I hope they address

[Enoch Root]

More comparison vs Colorado, by line:

Lehkonen - MacKinnon - Rantanen > Huberdeau - Lindholm - Toffoli (but not a whole lot)

Nichushkin - Newhook - Rodriguez << Mangiapane - Kadri - Dube

Meyers - Compher - O'Connor < ????? - Backlund - Coleman (no matter who gets the spot)

Which top 9 do you like better? I am a HUGE MacKinnon fan, but I think ours is better overall. It certainly isn't worse.

[Heavy Jack]

Huby
Mangiapane
Toffoli
Coleman
Dube

Basically have 5 wingers vying for the top 6 winger spots and when you look at the 5 I’d say the flames lack a winger, definitely not plural. The lineup top to bottom is amongst the deepest and strongest in the league outside of a top 9 winger but preferably a top 6 winger if at all possible.

Past all that Dube could also pop if he’s put on a line with Mangipane and Kadri which could produce that last top 6 winger this group is lacking.

[Willi Plett]

Originally Posted by browna

Looks like a Thursday night roster to me, with Mackey/Meloche/Ruzicka waving to the crowd from the bench in suits on opening night introductions.

Looks like Lewis is holding a place for someone…

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

More comparison vs Colorado, by line:

Lehkonen - MacKinnon - Rantanen > Huberdeau - Lindholm - Toffoli (but not a whole lot)

Nichushkin - Newhook - Rodriguez << Mangiapane - Kadri - Dube

Meyers - Compher - O'Connor < ????? - Backlund - Coleman (no matter who gets the spot)

Which top 9 do you like better? I am a HUGE MacKinnon fan, but I think ours is better overall. It certainly isn't worse.

I see what you are doing, but Colorado also went all in last year and couldn't sign everyone. They lost a lot of good players in free agency that was the cost of winning the cup and have top players.

Is our top 9 comparable to Colorado or Tampa from last year? The top line and second line yes, but they also don't have a Ritchie or Lewis in the lineup.

In the cap world no team is going to be perfect you will have holes, its how to patch those holes up, Lewis on the 3rd line and Ritchie in the lineup at all doesn't look like good options.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Yeah I'm not sure I will miss the predictable drop pass followed by button hook.

?? but we gain zone possession for pp setup after that...

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

?? but we gain zone possession for pp setup after that...

It was way less effective as more teams realized that's what they were doing nearly every time.

[Parallex]

Ought to try out Ruzicka at 3L LW.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I’m more worried about the goaltending to be honest. I think the lines and defensive pairings will sort themselves out.

Markstrom’s head has to be right though. Or nothing else matters.

Wow. I don't get this at all.

Markstrom has been spectacular since he arrived, outside of his return from injury in 2021, where he was clearly still getting back up to game shape, and in his play against the Oilers last year.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Willi Plett

Looks like Lewis is holding a place for someone…

By committee until Coronato takes the spot for the playoffs

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

It was way less effective as more teams realized that's what they were doing nearly every time.

And was ineffective in the playoffs (partly because it was so predictable)

The Flames were 14th (out of 16 teams) last year, at 12.2%

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I see vladar as an up and coming future starter in the NHL and I hope the flames organization does too - whether that's with us or elsewhere. thats to say he should not be bound to backup minutes if he has earned more than that . I don't care if markstrom was signed to 60 games/year money, if he's going to put up .680 out there you go to the other goalie until he gets his game in order