Woman Banned From Cafe For Tipping 20%

[chedder]

Here's where tipping has lost me. All things being equal, why does the server deserve to have their wage doubled through tipping but the grocery store worker or pharmacy staff or any number of other minimum wage customer service jobs not?

If the server deserves $30-40/hour just increase menu prices and let the owner pay them.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by chedder

Here's where tipping has lost me. All things being equal, why does the server deserve to have their wage doubled through tipping but the grocery store worker or pharmacy staff or any number of other minimum wage customer service jobs not?

This is the main sticking point. A lot of people still think that U.S. waitstaff payment practices are in effect in Canada. A lot of people you ask "Why do you tip" will reply with "Restaurants don't pay their staff." or "Servers only earn $2/hr! They'll starve without a good tip!" Folks just don't realize that waitstaff get at least minimum wage.

[FlamesAddiction]

It's true that tips expectations are getting out of whack though. Some places seriously expect 30% now. I rarely eat at restaurants anymore and was shocked a couple of weeks ago when they handed me the debit machine and the tipping options were 20%, 25% and 30%.

I'm just not going to bother eating at restaurants anymore at all.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

This is the main sticking point. A lot of people still think that U.S. waitstaff payment practices are in effect in Canada. A lot of people you ask "Why do you tip" will reply with "Restaurants don't pay their staff." or "Servers only earn $2/hr! They'll starve without a good tip!" Folks just don't realize that waitstaff get at least minimum wage.

Sometimes it amazes me that people dont understand the razor thin margins in restaurants.

Like its so simple to pay their staff more? Just charge more for the product! Well, if you charge too much then nobody is buying it.

Its a cycle.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sometimes it amazes me that people dont understand the razor thin margins in restaurants.

Like its so simple to pay their staff more? Just charge more for the product! Well, if you charge too much then nobody is buying it.

Its a cycle.

I know right? It’s not like anyone else in the world has figured it out. It’s simply impossible not to have a tipping culture.

[coaster]

Originally Posted by activeStick

LOL I had no idea... I feel shame...

LOL!! I don't feel so bad now for when I reported Eddy Murphy dying in a ski accident in the Alps.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sometimes it amazes me that people dont understand the razor thin margins in restaurants.

Like its so simple to pay their staff more? Just charge more for the product! Well, if you charge too much then nobody is buying it.

Its a cycle.

Depending on the restaurant, I have no info on margins at a place like Canadian Brewhouse but they must be making good money on a $22 burger that is nothing more than grilled disappointment.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Depending on the restaurant, I have no info on margins at a place like Canadian Brewhouse but they must be making good money on a $22 burger that is nothing more than grilled disappointment.

You'd think, but remember they probably pay a fortune in rent.

Either way, I'm not really going to get into a discussion on the economics of restaurants based on satirical bait. Although 'Grilled Disappointment' is great. I'm totally stealing that.

"PAY SERVERS MORE OMG!!"

They already get the same minimum wage as most and tips that they dodge taxes on. They're doing alright.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sometimes it amazes me that people dont understand the razor thin margins in restaurants.

Like its so simple to pay their staff more? Just charge more for the product! Well, if you charge too much then nobody is buying it.

Its a cycle.

That is true. Most barely scrap by these days. I also know servers that make $60-70K a year when you factor in tips which is really good for unskilled workers, and they don't work in fine dining. In fact, I have one friend who quit her job as a paralegal to go back into serving because she could make more. It's the back of the house that typically gets screwed the most.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sometimes it amazes me that people dont understand the razor thin margins in restaurants.



Like its so simple to pay their staff more? Just charge more for the product! Well, if you charge too much then nobody is buying it.



Its a cycle.

Razor thin from a cra standpoint. Different story from a cash in the hidden safe department. Not as much as before debit cards etc but definitely still lots of cash in the industry.

Agree it would take an industry wide shift but if tipping was abolished today it would be an even playing field so they could all raise prices, pay their staff and the customer would pay pretty much what they pay now.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

They already get the same minimum wage as most and tips that they dodge taxes on. They're doing alright.

Come back and comment once you’ve lived off of it.

The industry standard is a joke. Managers earn a salary and bonuses but paying the employees a decent wage directly would somehow destroy a business? Anyone who buys that argument is out to lunch, it’s merely a means to put more of the financial risks on the employees.

When a business model is born out of practices implemented to excuse not paying freed slaves the same as people who weren’t previously slaves, there’s a problem.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Would love to hear springs1's take on this issue.

It all hinges on the volume of the ranch dressing.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

When a business model is born out of practices implemented to excuse not paying freed slaves the same as people who weren’t previously slaves, there’s a problem.

I tend to think that the business models of things like prostitution, escorting, being a sugar baby, onlyfans, and being a server at Cactus Club all lie at somewhat different points along the same spectrum.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sometimes it amazes me that people dont understand the razor thin margins in restaurants.

Like its so simple to pay their staff more? Just charge more for the product! Well, if you charge too much then nobody is buying it.

Its a cycle.

I'm not fully up on pure restaurant margins but I've had two pubs.

Costs after operating expenses.(rent, staff, utilities etc.)
Food - 70-80%
Beverages - 55-65%

There's also revenue from other sources like games, pool tables and VLT's, if one does it right there's very good money to be made. I've paid my rent on VLT's alone!

As for the servers the key is to have the right amount of them, too many and they're not happy, too few and you loose the customers.

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I know right? It’s not like anyone else in the world has figured it out. It’s simply impossible not to have a tipping culture.

Ever been to Australia?

[activeStick]

Or Japan, where the first time I visited years ago, I was given my tips back.

[#-3]

I've become unsympathetic to industries that say they can't survive if they don't pay their employees properly, especially service industries where you all exist in a relatively similar rent, regulation and labour environment. Charge more until you can afford to pay your employees, if you can't find customers at that price point you are basically just leaching off the social welfare society provides to low income people, and your business doesn't really deserve to survive. (I assume those socialists who expect the state to prop them up by paying their employees are the people who most vocally declare their libertarian free market ideologies).

That said I think restaurants would be just fine with a 20% across the board increase in prices and wages, with refusal to accept tips. Me and the wife ordered door dash the other day, and I was looking at the restaurants own website adding up what we were ordering the bill should have been $83, door dash charged us $103 for the food plus a delivery fee. People are already paying all kinds of premiums for services, and the industries aren't having all that many issues collecting.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by #-3

I've become unsympathetic to industries that say they can't survive if they don't pay their employees properly, especially service industries where you all exist in a relatively similar rent, regulation and labour environment. Charge more until you can afford to pay your employees, if you can't find customers at that price point you are basically just leaching off the social welfare society provides to low income people, and your business doesn't really deserve to survive. (I assume those socialists who expect the state to prop them up by paying their employees are the people who most vocally declare their libertarian free market ideologies).

That said I think restaurants would be just fine with a 20% across the board increase in prices and wages, with refusal to accept tips. Me and the wife ordered door dash the other day, and I was looking at the restaurants own website adding up what we were ordering the bill should have been $83, door dash charged us $103 for the food plus a delivery fee. People are already paying all kinds of premiums for services, and the industries aren't having all that many issues collecting.

It’s odd that restaurants can charge more to not give their employees more money.

[81MC]

Decided with the wife on the way home from a short, ‘budget’ trip that were just going to buy some camping cookware and save going out for real treats.

A 16 ounce beer and a flight at a brewery in Banff, $42 fn dollars. 3 drinks and two meals at a pub in small town BC, $97 for half decent food and all the level of service that comes with ‘short staffed’.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by 81MC

A 16 ounce beer and a flight at a brewery in Banff, $42 fn dollars. 3 drinks and two meals at a pub in small town BC, $97 for half decent food and all the level of service that comes with ‘short staffed’.

We’ve pretty much stopped going out unless it is a very special occasion. I just can’t justify or afford this anymore, and I know I’m not alone.

[Hack&Lube]

Do you guys tip at places where you don't sit down? Like when buying a coffee?

Already paying $6 for a drink at some cafes and the like, paying tip on top of that when I'm just grabbing it to leave seems ridiculous.

I've pretty much stopped eating out at any place that requires tipping and I think it should be eradicated from our restaurant culture much like how it functions in Europe and Japan. Sticker price should be the sticker price. Any tips should be voluntary and you shouldn't be shamed or frowned upon or feel guilty for not tipping. If a business is not economically viable without tipping, then it should be out of business.