Saddledome literally falling apart

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Interesting that the lesson some are taking from this is that we need a new arena and not that the Saddledome should have been designed or maintained better.

There are older buildings than the Saddledome that are not falling apart.

This was certainly identified as apart of the playbook in field of schemes. Team owners with maintenance responsibilities providing little maintenance and upgrades while advocating the stadium needs to be replaced as it is in disrepair.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Macman

Yeah, should have never come to this situation.

Calgary in general needs new buildings and infrastructure for a growing city and a city this size. How is it actually different spending billions on a green line to the suburbs and not contribute some for sports/entertainment venues?

Yup we have
- A rink that is no longer NHL quality and falling apart
- A football stadium that is past it's life as well
- No baseball stadium that can house any quality baseball

I struggle with this because I also don't know if its the best use of public funds. But if, as a city, we want pro sports, you need facilities.

i don't know what the right solution is. But the state of facilities in this city is very poor.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Does any of what you just said negate the fact that a new arena is needed though?

It doesn’t negate it, I guess, but it’s worth reminding ourselves that repair and renovation is probably a more logical option.

The only reason it’s at the state it is in is to lead you to the conclusion you made, in my opinion.

[Monahammer]

Can't we just go back in time and have them not bumble the Calgary next proposal so horribly? I choose that reality.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

What is going on with that picture? It looks like the concrete lumps at the bottom have warped the ground around them. I can't visually parse what's going on there.

Yeah, its hard to tell without any context -- it makes it look like it destroyed the concrete sidewalk. From the photo caption in the article:

Concrete which fell from Saddledome's ring beam punched a hole in the roof of the covering for the building's west entrance.

Also from the article:

Pictures in a 2018 report show what happens when concrete breaks free and falls from the roof beam.

Chunks of concrete fell onto a roof structure below which is over the Saddledome's west steps. The heavy material punched a jagged hole in the structure.

The engineering reports note the problems with the concrete on the ring beam are of a superficial nature and do not present a structural concern for the roof itself.

So the photo is actually from 2018, not recently (FWIW).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yup we have
- A rink that is no longer NHL quality and falling apart
- A football stadium that is past it's life as well
- No baseball stadium that can house any quality baseball

I struggle with this because I also don't know if its the best use of public funds. But if, as a city, we want pro sports, you need facilities.

i don't know what the right solution is. But the state of facilities in this city is very poor.

Honestly given the prosperity in this province over the decades relative to the rest of Canada it's inexplicable that Calgary has by far the worst sports facilities of all major Canadian cities. We should have amongst the best end of story. Winnipeg with just over half the population of Calgary can somehow build a new arena and football stadium and we can't get either done? Both CSEC and city hall should be ashamed that things have come to this.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Interesting that the lesson some are taking from this is that we need a new arena and not that the Saddledome should have been designed or maintained better.

There are older buildings than the Saddledome that are not falling apart.

Except without the flux capacitor that is irrelevant

We need an arena

[Strange Brew]

I think it's worth asking what the money that was saved from updating/replacing these facilities has yielded.

Lower relative tax rates?
A funded reserve towards future projects?
Better services than comparable cities?

Or to put it another way, if the money had been spent to replace these facilities 10 years ago, what would be different today for taxpayers?

I am with Jiri, I don't really advocate for public funds on this stuff. But as other cities pay for such projects, what has been the net cost/benefit to its citizens?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Interesting that the lesson some are taking from this is that we need a new arena and not that the Saddledome should have been designed or maintained better.

There are older buildings than the Saddledome that are not falling apart.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It doesn’t negate it, I guess, but it’s worth reminding ourselves that repair and renovation is probably a more logical option.

The only reason it’s at the state it is in is to lead you to the conclusion you made, in my opinion.

Not sure that this is about lessons, it is simply the current state of the situation. And there is nothing we can do about the design of the building now, so I am not sure what point you are trying to make, other than throwing shade on the need for a new building.

Structurally, some things can be repaired, some things can't. The building has already undergone a fair bit of repairs over the years, and maintenance is what it is. It is now approaching the point where safety becomes a serious issue.

In other words, a new building is needed. This isn't a lesson to be drawn, it is simply a fact.

Are you attempting to argue that things are being presented nefariously, in order to influence the debate?

[Buff]

I'm looking forward to the "Come to the game and get a free hard hat *must wear the entirety of your time at the Dome" promotion.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think it's worth asking what the money that was saved from updating/replacing these facilities has yielded.

Lower relative tax rates?
A funded reserve towards future projects?
Better services than comparable cities?

Or to put it another way, if the money had been spent to replace these facilities 10 years ago, what would be different today for taxpayers?

I am with Jiri, I don't really advocate for public funds on this stuff. But as other cities pay for such projects, what has been the net cost/benefit to its citizens?

Well the other thing is because both sides bunged this up so badly, thus delaying any project, it has cost tens of millions of dollars as costs have risen. Probably hundreds.

That's the aggravating thing. everyone would be in a better state if it had been settled years ago, as it should have been.

Ego and incompetence got in the way. On both sides.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

In other words, a new building is needed. This isn't a lesson to be drawn, it is simply a fact.

Are you attempting to argue that things are being presented nefariously, in order to influence the debate?

I'll make that argument...the timing of these stories is always suspicious.

A lesson that can be drawn is to not make a short-sited deal that puts us right back in this situation in 40 years.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well the other thing is because both sides bunged this up so badly, thus delaying any project, it has cost tens of millions of dollars as costs have risen. Probably hundreds.

That's the aggravating thing. everyone would be in a better state if it had been settled years ago, as it should have been.

Ego and incompetence got in the way. On both sides.

How do you think the city bunged this?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I'll make that argument...the timing of these stories is always suspicious.

A lesson that can be drawn is to not make a short-sited deal that puts us right back in this situation in 40 years.

The news was kept internal by CSEC, it is the CBC reporting it now.

All timing of ALL things are suspicious, if you don't trust the actors.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

How do you think the city bunged this?

Certain posters just constantly feel the need to state that it's both sides who have handled this wrong. One side tried to strongarm the city and backed out of the deal, but the other side tweeted. TWEETED! The scorecard isn't close, but both sides.

Soon we'll have the buckets on seats catching leaking water like the Oilers pulled. Gotta ratchet up that pressure! Let the billionaire owners pay for it if they're embarrassed. My life goes on.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Except without the flux capacitor that is irrelevant

We need an arena

We have an arena. We need to fix the issue of falling concrete. Is a new arena the only fix for it?

[RM14]

Time to bring these back. Maybe not green though:

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Does any of what you just said negate the fact that a new arena is needed though?

The fact that it’s falling apart doesn’t even add anything to this obvious statement.

[Harry Lime]

To be fair, all of Murray Edward's buildings are old as hell and not well taken care of.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It doesn’t negate it, I guess, but it’s worth reminding ourselves that repair and renovation is probably a more logical option.

The only reason it’s at the state it is in is to lead you to the conclusion you made, in my opinion.

And of course, that's just common sense.