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Old 06-15-2022, 11:34 AM   #21
cannon7
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Originally Posted by boogerz View Post
Vladar is an unproven backup goalie and Kylington is a #4/5 dman. Unless Tkachuk is on the block, the Flames would have to add more than they can afford to get a legitimate top pairing dman back in a trade.
Tofffoli, Kylington and Vladar is a solid package, IMO. Kylington was playing #3/4 minutes this season.
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Old 06-15-2022, 12:49 PM   #22
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Tofffoli, Kylington and Vladar is a solid package, IMO. Kylington was playing #3/4 minutes this season.
Even if we agree that Kylington is a solid second pairing defensemen (which I think he has been, but I'm not sure his sample size is big enough for most GMs), I am not sure that Toffoli + Vladar is enough to upgrade to a top pairing defensemen. Mangiapane instead of Toffoli would probably get you there, or throwing in an additional pick or top prospect.
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Old 06-15-2022, 02:34 PM   #23
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I can't think of any established top 2 D who is available anyway. Maybe Jones? But his salary is prohibitive.
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Old 06-15-2022, 02:44 PM   #24
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I think Kylington will hit another gear. It would be a mistake to move him IMO.
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Old 06-15-2022, 08:58 PM   #25
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I thought their d was a mess going into this year, and look what Sutter did.

I expect he’ll manage again.
On that note, I kind of wanted to highlight a bit about what he did last year, to optimize his D pairs. Here are the 47 pairs that logged 550+ minutes together 5v5 score-and-venue-adjusted in 2021-22, sorted by expected goals percentage:

Spoiler!


So for starters, you've got Kylington-Tanev as one of the top five pairs defensively at 1.98 xGA/60, allowing them to have a top five xGF% the seventh-best GF%. But far more interesting is the coaching side of it. This pair were doing what they did with heavily defensive usage - 11.91 defensive zone starts/60 was actually the fourth-most defensively utilized pair in the NHL last year. I don't know what people define "first" or "second" pairs by, but by every definition, this was a shutdown defense pair, and one might argue that had they not both been hobbled in the playoffs, the outcome may have been different.

Next up you've got Hanifin-Andersson. They too were one of the top xGF% pairs in the league, although their per-60 GF/GA ratio was more riverboat-ey They were given more balanced usage - more neutral zone starts, but typically they were used indiscriminantly in every situation.

Finally, we actually had our third pair make the top ten of this list. What's interesting here is that our coach actually... coached. The third pair has some weaknesses... breakout passes, in particular. But Sutter really did shelter his third pair. Even though he was claiming that there was no third pair in the media, that isn't what his usage shows. Our "shutdown pair" (Kylington-Tanev) actually doubles the "big-and-mean pair" in defensive zone starts. The reduced amount of neutral zone starts for this pair is probably also indicative of keeping them away from the top lines in the league. He really just wrung the most out of this pair, because he leveraged his shutdown pair so well.

Of course, credit goes to Zadorov-Gudbranson for performing. I'm not trying to take that credit away from them. But good coaches also know when a certain pair is or isn't going, and adjust the icetime accordingly. I doubt Sutter would have tossed Bartkowski-Engelland out there the way a certain someone did back in the 2017 playoffs
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Old 06-16-2022, 08:53 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by cannon7 View Post
Tofffoli, Kylington and Vladar is a solid package, IMO. Kylington was playing #3/4 minutes this season.
I can’t imagine any team trading a top pairing dman for a collection of stuff.
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