If You Could Undo One Treliving Move & Replace it With A Similar One

[Strange Brew]

Read the OP. You can’t just undo a move. So yeah not signing Neal is obvious but what aging winger would we have signed instead?

How about keep Bennett and expose Monahan in the expansion draft? Or just expose Monahan and hopefully he is picked instead of Gio. Makes this off-season a lot easier.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Read the OP. You can’t just undo a move. So yeah not signing Neal is obvious but what aging winger would we have signed instead?

How about keep Bennett and expose Monahan in the expansion draft? Or just expose Monahan and hopefully he is picked instead of Gio. Makes this off-season a lot easier.

Was Monahan still considered injured at the draft? Dunno if that’s allowed.

I think there should be more parameters around this exercise. Should the counter move be done at the same time? Or if not, what is the time frame?

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Tree rec9vered brill8antly from the Neal debacle. Overpriced or not Lucic has been a rock solid fit with the Flames and I cannot think they'd matured the way they did without him. So while the Neal deal itself was horrible, it was salvaged. So I'd let that one sit.

The Brouwer contract, that's up there. He just blew chunks as a Flame and it really sucked. But, is what it is and not his worst act by a long shot.

Like others have posted already. Undo the Hamonic trade, it's was pure garbage from the get go and the Flames really lost so much from it. So much. We don't know how they would have drafted or used the picks another way but man that Hamonic trade reeks to high heaven to this day. There's no way around it. It set the club back.

Honorable mentions to the Bennett debacle. I for one feel he would have flourished under Sutter. They could have given him one more year to see if that was the fix. Ah well. Water under bridge etc.

Another HM is the Gulutzan hire. I understand the Peters hire as he had a positive effect out of the gates but the Gully hire might be as bad as the Hamonic trade. Actually, firing Hartley for Gully . A double kick in the balls on that maneuver.

You've had me at Brouwer and lost me at Peters. I never understood the Peters' hire when Darryl was available and willing. I was very vocal about it at the time and got scolded by many here for "looking back instead of looking forward". At Tre's own admission, his whole decision-making factor was being impressed by Peters over his coaching style during some IIHF event (or something like it, I forgot the exact event). The fact that Peters had zero head coaching success during playoffs was of no consequence to Treliving (similar to Ward and Gulutzan).

To be fair, for every season he was here, Treliving had tried making the team roster better in the off-season in accordance with what he thought and the coaches thought the most pressing need was. The problem was his "looking for a bargain deal" trend. More often than not, this has lead to buying crap on the cheap.

[powderjunkie]

Wasn't the Toews trade largely expansion related?

Andersson
Hanifin
Toews
Tanev
Gio

That off-season (ie 1 year before ED) we thought it was likely to expose Tanev over Gio.

[Roof-Daddy]

Even if the Flames don't make the Hanifin trade and draft Dobson with that pick like the Isles did they are way better off.

[powderjunkie]

Ultimately we know the Hamilton trade chain worked out really well (especially if you apply the BOS picks to that trade), but I think it's the original sin that kicked off a vicious cycle of deficit spending.

Keep those picks. Everything from there is butterfly effect, but the pick deficit and cap crunch all traces back to that move.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Read the OP. You can’t just undo a move. So yeah not signing Neal is obvious but what aging winger would we have signed instead?

How about keep Bennett and expose Monahan in the expansion draft? Or just expose Monahan and hopefully he is picked instead of Gio. Makes this off-season a lot easier.

I have thought about how much better the team could have been if they made this move. I really think Bennett would have continued to thrive under Darryl and would have been a key piece as a 2/3 C. I know his return was flipped with other assets for Toffoli and Jarnkrok so who knows what happens there?

With both Gio and Monahan exposed almost certain the Kraken take Monahan. Zadorov likely is not acquired so that money and the Monahan money allow for the Bennett extension and Coleman signing.

Gio probably would have done the same minimum extension here and plays his whole career in Calgary.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I’m actually someone who feels that the sum of BTs work with this roster is actually good. I think given the market, the challenges represented by a small Canadian market his body of work has been a positive.

Except in one area, which was how long he took to get the right coach in here (said already by another poster). If you think about what Sutter is saying about a group needing to go through seasons of improvement and experience to be ready to win a cup, this team has wasted a lot of years on the wrong coaches.

If I was to pick on move, it would be the decision to come back with Ward for the last years season start. I understand the need to maybe stick with an interim coach after being forced into a coaching change the season before. But Treliving seemed to have identify when he chose Peters that this group needed a coach with some of the tendencies Hartley or Sutter bring, and that this group underachieves with “players coaches” (Gully / Ward). So it just seemed odd to abandon that knowledge and waste last year by starting it with Ward.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by troutman

Undo: other coaches
Do: Darryl

This is the answer. Imagine this core with a couple more years of Sutter. We’ve had the parts and pieces over the years but never a coach to put it together. Brodano, 3M line, Purple power. This team could have been a ####ing power house.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Was Monahan still considered injured at the draft? Dunno if that’s allowed.

I think there should be more parameters around this exercise. Should the counter move be done at the same time? Or if not, what is the time frame?

It must be allowed, Price was left off with scheduled surgery (and other reasons of course but that came later)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 81MC

This is the answer. Imagine this core with a couple more years of Sutter. We’ve had the parts and pieces over the years but never a coach to put it together. Brodano, 3M line, Purple power. This team could have been a ####ing power house.

The only flaw is that supposedly Sutter was never available.

[Kipper_3434]

Gave it lots of thought, and I think the Gaudreau contract , going 8x8 would have been by far the best butterfly effect, would have meant less money to chase Neal and effectively extended the window.

[DazzlinDino]

Hiring an experienced coach would have solved a lot of problems. I understand that Treliving wanted to do his own thing, Hiring a coach with a winning pedigree and experience is a no-brainer and a sold building block. Hiring coaches on training wheels created a lot of set backs and turnover. Players not giving an effort from one game to the next, one season to the next. Players brought in only to disappoint only to be shipped back out. Sutter seemed to know how to work with Bennett, compared to Ward based on experience. The list goes on and on. Sutter talked about players especially, defenseman being pushed around and out of shape. The team was slow, too many passengers and the players brought in didn't seem to fit any identity. I contend Brad would have learned a lot more a lot faster had he brought in the right coaches. I highly doubt he would have made the same types of mistakes. Brad's got it figured out now and teams in much better shape. Brad's lucky to have survived his lessons but now the coaches brought in create a stronger foindation. Feeling now is much more optimistic.

[browna]

Re Sutter, it does take two to tango.

I think Sutter has also said when hired that he was approached earlier but he wasn't ready or interested.

Not sure when that was specifically.

Did Sutter or Burke have an issue with each other I wonder? Sutter may not have been an option if Burke was here and vice versa.

It could've also been the offseason after the Dallas loss and game 6 debacle. It took Treliving a bunch of time to announce Ward was coming back.

Maybe that's when Sutter wasn't ready.
If Sutter was available then, that was the key mistake. They wasted a year. If Sutter was there from the offseason, the team make up looks different. Even if he shows up for Game 1 of the regular season, guaranteed he get 3 more points and make the playoffs.

Then maybe the Flames learn the playoff lessons last year under Sutter, at worst, then learning them this year. Or maybe the Flames go to the Cup like the team they finished just behind in the Habs.

The Flames finished behind the Habs by 2 points. The Habs went to the playoffs and the Stanley Cup final. Two organizations would've been altered if Sutter coaches the Flames from the start of last year...the Habs dont go to the Cup and make changes before this season, and then they don't finish in the basement of the league and get the #1 pick this year. Who knows if thing works for Gordon and from that St Louis going there as GM.and coach respectfully.

Re Perron signing instead;
He hated his time in Edmonton and made the famous inseason trade request.
Oilers #### show aside, I think the likelihood he was interested in playing in Canada long term was low. Again, takes two to tango and just becuase Perron was a UFA, doesn't mean he had any interest in coming here.

[Flamesfan05]

Signed Perron instead of Neal

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The only flaw is that supposedly Sutter was never available.

Fine, Bruce. Pay him $8mil a year, whatever. Any highly touted coach that was available over Gulutzan is also my answer.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Fine, Bruce. Pay him $8mil a year, whatever. Any highly touted coach that was available over Gulutzan is also my answer.

OK, Bruce. But then you don’t get Darryl. Butterfly effect.

I’m not sold on Boudreau anyway.

[Strange Brew]

IMO there is a flaw in the roster if it takes a perfect coach pushing every button perfectly to give you a chance to win.

Not to say we haven’t had some bad ones.

[Strange Brew]

Dp

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

OK, Bruce. But then you don’t get Darryl. Butterfly effect.

I’m not sold on Boudreau anyway.

For what it is worth, I thought I recall Sutter saying he was available and interested to get back into coaching if the situation was right. I would have to go back through my history to find the link for it, but that was my recollection. I have been an advocate for hiring an experienced coach with a winning pedigree for a long time. One of Sutters first moves at the start of this season was bringing in proven people, with experience. Sutter has brought in a solid foundation to build on and it shows.