[Game Takes] Sharks 4 Flames 3

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm just not 100% sure Monahan is the guy that has to come out.

All three of Monahan, Lucic and Lewis have struggled of late. May make more sense to try Lewis on the sidelines for Carpenter giving that line two centers (one left, one right), and see if they can avoid getting into trouble.

The line gave up two last night, but both were soft goals on Markstrom. Monahan turned the first one over but there was never any scoring chance.

Monahan specifically was on the ice for one high danger chance for and none against. Sometimes you don't get the bounces, and that's more true for a line that doesn't score because bad luck is a minus if you're not going to score at all.

Although Lewis has lost any offense into what appears to be the abyss, he isn't actively hurting the club and contributes on the PK.

I cannot say the same about Monahan...as much as it pains me, he is a liability at this point even if there isnt a fancy stat from last night saying as much.

Maybe a couple nights watching from the press box level can set his mind right.

Give Carpenter that spot for a bit and find out what you have, let the coaches/sports psychologist work with Monny and try again next week?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Although Lewis has lost any offense into what appears to be the abyss, he isn't actively hurting the club and contributes on the PK.

I cannot say the same about Monahan...as much as it pains me, he is a liability at this point even if there isnt a fancy stat from last night saying as much.

Maybe a couple nights watching from the press box level can set his mind right.

Give Carpenter that spot for a bit and find out what you have, let the coaches/sports psychologist work with Monny and try again next week?

I see all three of them having little offence and turning the puck over.

You only see Monahan doing that?

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm just not 100% sure Monahan is the guy that has to come out.

All three of Monahan, Lucic and Lewis have struggled of late. May make more sense to try Lewis on the sidelines for Carpenter giving that line two centers (one left, one right), and see if they can avoid getting into trouble.

The line gave up two last night, but both were soft goals on Markstrom. Monahan turned the first one over but there was never any scoring chance.

Monahan specifically was on the ice for one high danger chance for and none against. Sometimes you don't get the bounces, and that's more true for a line that doesn't score because bad luck is a minus if you're not going to score at all.

4th lines most often won’t score but good ones will create momentum, bring energy. That isn’t Monahan’s game, where Lewis and Lucic can both bring that. Worth seeing if Carpenter could add that to the mix, IMO it should be at the expense of Monahan.

Where he adds value, he doesn’t do it as well as 9 other forwards. The team will not miss his presence if he’s in the press box.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

4th lines most often won’t score but good ones will create momentum, bring energy. That isn’t Monahan’s game, where Lewis and Lucic can both bring that. Worth seeing if Carpenter could add that to the mix, IMO it should be at the expense of Monahan.

Where he adds value, he doesn’t do it as well as 9 other forwards. The team will not miss his presence if he’s in the press box.

When you get to forwards 10-13 it's really a matter of personal choice I guess.

I see Lewis mistakes the most, but that could just be a bias.

Monahan is younger, has a better chance of finishing (not seeing it this year) and takes more draws so I see him as the most likely to stay in.

But Sutter clearly likes Lewis so he may easily go your way.

Also starting to wonder if Lucic retires this offseason after his final bonus cheque; he has to see his role slipping.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Also starting to wonder if Lucic retires this offseason after his final bonus cheque; he has to see his role slipping.

I'm told that if he retires after taking his bonus, he has to pay the bonus back. If he cashes the cheque, he has a contractual obligation to play out the season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I'm told that if he retires after taking his bonus, he has to pay the bonus back. If he cashes the cheque, he has a contractual obligation to play out the season.

Oh ... that impacts the chances then.

Has stuck with me how close he said he came to hanging them up when Peters was here. Hockey was no fun anymore.

Maybe he feels the same about a diminished role and walks away anyway.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

When is Sutter going to sit Lucic or Monahan? Preferably both, terrible hockey players

My guess Monahan is a healthy scratch for the next game and Ryan Carpenter will play center for the 4th line

[SeanCharles]

I agree with Bingo, Monahan is the one guy on the 4th line I would keep in. He makes smart passes/plays and was actually physically engaged last night.

He has the highest potential out of any of our bottom 5 forwards and is playing the role asked of him.

I actually think there is a chance he may rebound next season as hip injuries take at least a year to fully get back to normal.

Maybe sit both Lucic and Lewis:

Ritchie-Monahan-Carpenter

[D as in David]

Where Lucic seems to be struggling the most (to my eyes) is getting the puck off the wall on breakouts. Do teams play him differently because Monahan is less a threat speed-wise on breakouts? (assuming the majority of the breakout passes from the wall are to Monny)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Where Lucic seems to be struggling the most (to my eyes) is getting the puck off the wall on breakouts. Do teams play him differently because Monahan is less a threat speed-wise on breakouts? (assuming the majority of the breakout passes from the wall are to Monny)

Yeah, he used to be money on those. But those passes he used to make were also to Monahan a lot of the time, so I’m not sure what changed.

[DoubleK]

The GWG is exactly why playing your offwing in the D-zone is a huge liability.

Lewis doesn't cough that puck up right into the middle the way Coleman did. No argument that Lewis isn't a top 6 forward, but thinking of team composition in both end of the rink matters.

The coach can manage with one off wing winger in the top 6, but two is way too risky. Much rather see a strong top 9 than an overloaded top 6 with that deficiency built into your lines.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I see all three of them having little offence and turning the puck over.

You only see Monahan doing that?

No...all 3 are struggling offensively.

What I see is Lewis contributing other ways that Monahan simply isnt/cant.

That's why Lewis staying in makes most sense as well as a replacement is now in town to take that C position that wasn't available before.

Lucic is a separate story because its pretty clear what his issue is and its unfixable at this point in his career.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

The GWG is exactly why playing your offwing in the D-zone is a huge liability.

Lewis doesn't cough that puck up right into the middle the way Coleman did. No argument that Lewis isn't a top 6 forward, but thinking of team composition in both end of the rink matters.

The coach can manage with one off wing winger in the top 6, but two is way too risky. Much rather see a strong top 9 than an overloaded top 6 with that deficiency built into your lines.

I don't agree on the off wing thing. I think it opens up the ice to see their own defenseman and avoid the blindspot of the pinching opposing dmen. Plus it allows you to see your center without having to look back when the opposing dman is coming in on you.

He made a chip pass that hit a skate.

Happens.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No...all 3 are struggling offensively.

What I see is Lewis contributing other ways that Monahan simply isnt/cant.

That's why Lewis staying in makes most sense as well as a replacement is now in town to take that C position that wasn't available before.

Lucic is a separate story because its pretty clear what his issue is and its unfixable at this point in his career.

Lewis on the PK and Monahan isn't on either special teams so that's a point.

But five on five I see Lewis as the weakest link at this point ... his hands are gone. Monahan and Lucic (in that order ... to me) have been better on the cycle.

[Strange Brew]

Lucic is a player who might elevate his game a bit come playoff time. He is a respected leader on the club so IMO you only bench him if you're confident in how he and the team team will handle it.

Monahan is a bit of a differents tory. Playing center, it's the most important position on the line and more is expected especially in the defensive zone. Maybe he doesn't get sat for the same reasons (leader on the club etc.). Although maybe Sutter just tells these guys he's going to rotate them through the last 20 games.

But the leash is going to be extremely short for 23 come playoff time.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lewis on the PK and Monahan isn't on either special teams so that's a point.

But five on five I see Lewis as the weakest link at this point ... his hands are gone. Monahan and Lucic (in that order ... to me) have been better on the cycle.

And Monahans aren't?

I hate it...I'm a big SM fan, and since day 1.

IMO there is no way i keep him in the line-up over Lewis at this point considering the replacement option for each.

Monahan has 9 ES points this year in 63 games. 9.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And Monahans aren't?

I hate it...I'm a big SM fan, and since day 1.

IMO there is no way i keep him in the line-up over Lewis at this point considering the replacement option for each.

Monahan has 9 ES points this year in 63 games. 9.

The trend is certainly not good either.

No ES points in the last 16 games. 19 shots on goal in those 16 games and I wonder how many of those are on the PP.

For a while the storyline was he was an 40 point pace which wasn't horrible for a bottom roster player, but he was the beneficiary of being on a very effective PP1 unit.

He is now a scoring center that doesn't score. I still respect 23 alot and his toughness is way underrated.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And Monahans aren't?

I hate it...I'm a big SM fan, and since day 1.

IMO there is no way i keep him in the line-up over Lewis at this point considering the replacement option for each.

Monahan has 9 ES points this year in 63 games. 9.

He can do more with the puck than Lewis. Plays are literally dying Lewis' stick 9 out of 10 times he gets the puck.

His brain (and feet) have him in the right spot to play defense, but he's rough in transition.

So I'm not making a "Monahan is great" argument, but when compared to Lewis (and to a lesser extend Lucic) less plays are dying on Monahan's stick than the other two.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't agree on the off wing thing. I think it opens up the ice to see their own defenseman and avoid the blindspot of the pinching opposing dmen. Plus it allows you to see your center without having to look back when the opposing dman is coming in on you.

This is exactly backwards. In order to receive a pass on the forehand you are facing your own goal and exposing your blindside to a pinching defenseman.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

This is exactly backwards. In order to receive a pass on the forehand you are facing your own goal and exposing your blindside to a pinching defenseman.

I hear what you're saying, but it's different.

A right hand shot on the right wall is trying to skate towards the blueline while looking back to take a pass.

A left hand shot on the right wall is open to the defenseman making the pass and also the center circling to break out. He could get clocked by the pinching defenseman but if he does the puck is protected as it's away from that defenseman and it's a hit from behind to wipe him out.

Whenever I had a kid that just couldn't break out we'd swap him to the other side and it worked most of the time. It slows the game down a touch.