View Poll Results: Should Alberta Seperate From Canada?
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Yes
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76 |
43.93% |
No
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97 |
56.07% |
12-08-2005, 07:14 PM
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#21
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Calgary, AB
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WOW. I am absolutely shocked at all the Yes votes.
If there were no oil under Alberta, we would all be praising our lucky stars for transfer payments. Be grateful you live in such a wonderful country where the wealth is shared, and not selfishly hoarded .. and God forbid that disgusting pig of a man and Harper is ever elected Prime Minister.
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12-08-2005, 07:16 PM
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#22
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In Your MCP
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Watching Hot Dog Hans
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I wonder if we would ever see actual fighting (as in civil war) inside Canada? Quebec leaves, they try to take the St Lawrence with them and Canada says "let's go", Alberta gets ****ed and starts taking over BC....
Could we be the next Russia?
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12-08-2005, 07:17 PM
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#23
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Olympic Saddledome
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Hell no.
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12-08-2005, 07:19 PM
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#24
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaming Homer
The only other issue that I have with seperation (I forgot to add it), is that with a high redneck population in Alberta with a large disliking for immigrants ( I can't go 2 min into a convo with a "true" Albertan without some sort of racial comment on asians/brown people) that these people would be alienated even though many are just as much an Albertan as everyone else. I could see it being a scary situation for some of them.
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You're gonna have a real hard time proving that.
Albertans for the most part have no problems with immigrants... if they work hard and add something to the country, like they are supposed to. The ones that live off the system are the ones that draw ire. I'm a "true" Albertan (little bit of a redneck sometimes too..) and many of my friends are Asian and Brown, and none of them have ever faced any racism cause of their color that they have disclosed in any conversation on the topic.
I mean, complaining about Asian drivers or joking about cabbies being predominantly brown is far from racism if thats what you're getting at.
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12-08-2005, 07:21 PM
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#25
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
WOW. I am absolutely shocked at all the Yes votes.
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Most of the people who would vote 'no', wouldn't even bother to entertain this topic.
Alberta would never survive long-term as an independent country. Sure, things are good now, but it's only a blink in time. When oil becomes inconsequental in a few hundred years, so would Alberta as an independent country.
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12-08-2005, 07:21 PM
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#26
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
WOW. I am absolutely shocked at all the Yes votes.
If there were no oil under Alberta, we would all be praising our lucky stars for transfer payments. Be grateful you live in such a wonderful country where the wealth is shared, and not selfishly hoarded .. and God forbid that disgusting pig of a man and Harper is ever elected Prime Minister.
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Except there is oil. And for the level of support we give this country, we spend a lot of time being crapped upon by the rest of Canada. Give me a reason to feel like my voice matters, and I'll care what Canada thinks. Until then, it can rot for all I care.
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12-08-2005, 07:30 PM
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#27
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
WOW. I am absolutely shocked at all the Yes votes.
If there were no oil under Alberta, we would all be praising our lucky stars for transfer payments. Be grateful you live in such a wonderful country where the wealth is shared, and not selfishly hoarded .. and God forbid that disgusting pig of a man and Harper is ever elected Prime Minister.
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What a pathetic argument. If there wasn't oil.. there'd be something else to drive the economy, just like everywhere else in Canada. What if there were no trees in BC, or no rivers in Quebec, or no manufacturing in Ontario??? Albertans would run whatever we have well, cause we're not backwards fiscal socialists.
Be grateful that we squander our wealth?? sure, thanks Canada. Thanks for taking $300 billion out of Alberta and returning our sharing with the NEP, no influence, Gun Registries that don't work, villainizing us every election, not recognizing our Senate elections while appointing our Senators, label us rednecks, pigs and extremists when we want to involve ourselves in politics or express our views... yeah, thanks for nothing.
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12-08-2005, 07:40 PM
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#28
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
WOW. I am absolutely shocked at all the Yes votes.
If there were no oil under Alberta, we would all be praising our lucky stars for transfer payments. Be grateful you live in such a wonderful country where the wealth is shared, and not selfishly hoarded .. and God forbid that disgusting pig of a man and Harper is ever elected Prime Minister.
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Wow, you know, at first I thought you were joking or pulling our leg, then I realized you were serious. Your statement is exactly why a lot of Albertans are willing to look at seperation if the Liberal's stumble into power again. The fact that you expect us to be blindly grateful to Canada because of a what if statement? The fact is that we do have Oil under our land, and the Federal Government tried its best to screw us out of that revenue, and could very well be poised to do it again. Canada is not a wonderful country currently because of the unfair system of government, and the unfair elections system. And I was insulted by your statement on calling Harper a disgusting pig of a man, and I would retailiate to that by saying at least he's not a weak willed slimy used car sales man confidence man like Paul Martin.
what a ridiculous statement.
Everything that Alberta has gained over the last 20 years has been earned no thanks to the Federal Government, and as far as I'm concerned on the seperatism issue, we should use it in the same way as Quebec and put the screws to the Feds until they squeal.
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12-08-2005, 07:43 PM
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#29
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Scoring Winger
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No.
Then again, I don't think like the typical Albertan.
Say what you want about Quebec separatists. At least they have some more valid claims and arguments than a bunch of ****ed off anti-Liberals. You think a separate Alberta would be all roses? Automatic good government? haha! In the land that has built a veritable throne for King Ralph?
No ties to your country whatsoever? No patriotism? No pride?
I would honestly be incredibly saddened by Quebec separation. Because I love my country... and they are part of it. And I personally never want to see that ripped apart.
Maybe I'm too idealistic. Maybe I'm too much of a fence-sitter for my own good. But I'm fairly certain that each of us on this forum have a pretty damn good life, and it is living in Canada that has enabled us to live such a life.
And then people wonder why others are "scared" of the conservatives.
I agree that it hasn't been all roses when it comes to the federal gov't and Alberta. Such is the fate of federalism. Sure, go promote some kind of change, and evolution. Separation is an irrational excuse from bitter Albertans. Give your head a shake. We live in a damn good country.
And don't forget that there will come a time when this province and its inhabitants need the rest of Canada. That time will come; it is inevitable. Separation isn't viable for a lot of reasons. And you know it.
I just can't believe that there are people who feel so little when it comes to their country. It's sad.
__________________
- Ice is slippery -
Last edited by lucid; 12-08-2005 at 07:46 PM.
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12-08-2005, 07:46 PM
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#30
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: YSJ (1979-2002) -> YYC (2002-2022) -> YVR (2022-present)
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Quote:
I wonder if we would ever see actual fighting (as in civil war) inside Canada?
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I've often wondered what would happen if the "Yes" side won a referendum in Quebec, but then Montreal and the Eastern Townships had their own referendum to rejoin Canada. Since current separatist mantra dictates that Quebec cannot be divisible, they likely wouldn't allow the referendum somehow. Would Canada then send in the military to "liberate" Montreal?
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12-08-2005, 07:52 PM
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#31
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Norm!
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Lucid just to top things off, just having a good life dosen't mean that you have to accept the way things work in this country, and a little revolution and shock now and then is a good thing. Canadian People, and the country itself is a pretty rare and wonderful place, but that dosen't extend to how its being run, and how Alberta is seen by the federal government as a way to gain favoritism with the people that regularly vote for them. A government should have the singular focuses of serving the entire country whether they are popular in each region or not, the minute they start currying favor for a region because they have voter support is the minute that you create a class society.
Please don't accuse me of not being a patriot, I've done my duty to Canada, and I did it happily.
But the systems clearly broken, and either it needs to be fixed and addressed, or the country breaks apart anyways.
I remember Paul Martin swore up and down that he was going to address the democratic deficit and the unhappiness in the west or his term as Prime Minister would be deemed as a personal failure. After 17 months of ineffective rule he's actually pushed Alberta further away, and Quebec has become more dis-enfranchised. Its time that these issues were met and fixed and Alberta was treated as a partner in the confederation, not as the angry ######ed little brother.
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12-08-2005, 07:52 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clinching Party
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tron_fdc
I wonder if we would ever see actual fighting (as in civil war) inside Canada? Quebec leaves, they try to take the St Lawrence with them and Canada says "let's go", Alberta gets ****ed and starts taking over BC....
Could we be the next Russia?
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Forcing the "you are living in a different country whether you like it or not" scenario tends to get people's backs up a little bit. There would be violence. Maybe not like Russia, but people would get killed.
I would't be too happy if some separatist government forced me to revoke my Canadian citizenship to become a citizen of some half-baked undefended gas station, err I mean republic.
And like in Quebec, I'm sure the natives in Alberta are none too fond of ditching the rest of the country so that could cause just a few "problems".
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12-08-2005, 07:53 PM
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#33
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarchHare
I've often wondered what would happen if the "Yes" side won a referendum in Quebec, but then Montreal and the Eastern Townships had their own referendum to rejoin Canada. Since current separatist mantra dictates that Quebec cannot be divisible, they likely wouldn't allow the referendum somehow. Would Canada then send in the military to "liberate" Montreal?
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Unlikely, I doubt that any sane officer or NCO would obey those orders, and any French troops would probably openly rebel, and Quebec's first move would be to go to the UN for support and we would likely see American PeaceKeeping Troops up here.
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12-08-2005, 07:55 PM
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#34
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ---
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos
Forcing the "you are living in a different country whether you like it or not" scenario tends to get people's backs up a little bit. There would be violence. Maybe not like Russia, but people would get killed.
I would't be too happy if some separatist government forced me to revoke my Canadian citizenship to become a citizen of some half-baked undefended gas station, err I mean republic.
And like in Quebec, I'm sure the natives in Alberta are none too fond of ditching the rest of the country so that could cause just a few "problems".
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The whole point of Alberta leaving would to be to make the majority of people in Alberta happy, if Alberta did seperate it would be best for both parties involved to offer some sort of deal to people wanting to leave....
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12-08-2005, 07:56 PM
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#35
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
And then people wonder why others are "scared" of the conservatives.
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What the hell do the conservatives have to do with this discussion?
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Say what you want about Quebec separatists. At least they have some more valid claims and arguments than a bunch of ****ed off anti-Liberals.
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What "valid" claims do they have exactly?? What haven't they been given OVER AND ABOVE the rest of the country that has you saying such a load of nonsense?
As for the question at hand....it would all depend on the circumstances. I have no doubt that Alberta would be part of a provincial alliance before there would be much support, so the question is somewhat tilted to answer.
It would always be worth investigating though.
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12-08-2005, 07:57 PM
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#36
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In Your MCP
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Watching Hot Dog Hans
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarchHare
I've often wondered what would happen if the "Yes" side won a referendum in Quebec, but then Montreal and the Eastern Townships had their own referendum to rejoin Canada. Since current separatist mantra dictates that Quebec cannot be divisible, they likely wouldn't allow the referendum somehow. Would Canada then send in the military to "liberate" Montreal?
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I was chatting with a fellow who used to be in the Military and served in Bosnia, and he said that the split in their country happened much like what is happening in ours. Obviously he wasn't predicting genocide, but his comments were along the lines of "used to be an advanced, industrialized, civil country when one day one faction decided it wanted more rights than the other". In our case you have Quebec, who wants to seperate, wants certain recognotions, and wants to take certain things with them. One of those things is the St Lawrence seaway (and you'll have to forgive my lack of seafaring knowledge in Ontario/Quebec) but apparently there are quite a few ships that use this route to get into the Hudson Bay. It's apparently a MAJOR issue, as the owner of said seaway could easily tax any vessel using it, and could raise some pretty major cash by doing so. That said, who knows what people are willing to go to war over....
Then you have Alberta.......major resources, and in the minds of many they're worth fighting over. Realistic? Sure. Likely? Probably not.
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12-08-2005, 07:59 PM
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#37
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CP's Resident DJ
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: In the Gin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
.. and God forbid that disgusting pig of a man and Harper is ever elected Prime Minister.
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Nice...
If I had used that same set of words with any minority candidate, or Svend Robinson, or Brison, or any lady candidate, would I not be absolutely flamed here?
No, not at all...  ... but let it be a white male candidate for PM from the CPC.... and that is OK....
Disgusting.
Last edited by Shawnski; 12-08-2005 at 08:07 PM.
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12-08-2005, 08:06 PM
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#38
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clinching Party
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaming Homer
The whole point of Alberta leaving would to be to make the majority of people in Alberta happy, if Alberta did seperate it would be best for both parties involved to offer some sort of deal to people wanting to leave....
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Say I don't want to leave. Then what? A gun in my ear and a bus ticket in my hand?
These things don't usually turn out to be nice "sign the papers, smile for the camera, everybody's happy" type separations. Some people actually like the country they live in and they take it rather seriously if some other people try to change it.
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12-08-2005, 08:07 PM
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#39
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Lucid just to top things off, just having a good life dosen't mean that you have to accept the way things work in this country, and a little revolution and shock now and then is a good thing. Canadian People, and the country itself is a pretty rare and wonderful place, but that dosen't extend to how its being run...
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Agreed.
Quote:
But the systems clearly broken, and either it needs to be fixed and addressed, or the country breaks apart anyways.
I remember Paul Martin swore up and down that he was going to address the democratic deficit and the unhappiness in the west or his term as Prime Minister would be deemed as a personal failure. After 17 months of ineffective rule he's actually pushed Alberta further away, and Quebec has become more dis-enfranchised. Its time that these issues were met and fixed and Alberta was treated as a partner in the confederation, not as the angry ######ed little brother.
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Agreed again.
I'm not saying that we need to be happy with the way this country is being run. You said it youself: it's broken & needs to be fixed.
Separation is something drastic. It's not mending anything... it's packing up and leaving and saying "screw it."
Nothing good comes of a party being in power for so long. I guess I don't equate "fixing" with separation. Though little threats to put pressure on the federal gov't isn't so bad.
tranny- A poor choice of argument and words re: the conservatives. Looking at it from the outside- in: Conservatives= anti-Liberals. There's a lot of people who would equate the two. And there are a lot of people who would take it a step further and include pro-separation Albertans (and all their crazy ideas) to that too.
__________________
- Ice is slippery -
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12-08-2005, 08:17 PM
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#40
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Franchise Player
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Hell no, the day Alberta ever becomes as pathetic and whiney as gems like Quebec, the Welsh and Scotland is a dark day! Passive aggresiveness isn't a pretty trait on anyone, least of all our great province.
I don't know if it's my English heritage, but I don't like seperatists. (Their stance not them personally, well except the Welsh  ) I just can't stand the walk out mentality, I mean I don't get to seperate out my little section of Conservative Alberta. Even though I've never voted Liberal, I sure as hell wouldn't vote Conservative (actually I did, I voted for Joe Clark) but not this incarnation. I'm overwhelmed with right wing here in Alberta, do I give up? No.
Better to be an important fish in a big pond than a non fish in a big pond. (Not me the province, I'm not an important fish)
Just my opinion. Ok you can flame me now.
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