In Hindsight

[Fuzz]

Nm

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

In hindsight CalgaryNEXT was still a preposterous boondoggle that looked like it was designed as an Elementary Class make-work project.

In foresight too…

[SebC]

Originally Posted by edslunch

In foresight too…

Sums up the whole thread.

"In hindsight, NIMBY histrionics are unjustified. In foresight too!"

The only exception I might grant is the Sheldon Chumir supervised consumption site. That one seems like it might have been a bit of a disaster.

Personally I think The Bow sucks specifically because it unbalances the skyline, but I don't recall anyone advancing that argument, nor do I think that would've been grounds to oppose the project. And I like the height and density, I just wish is was distributed better across downtown. Like if Oxford was our tallest and the East Village more substantial, the Skyline wouldn't have so much of a cliff at the East end.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by SebC

Sums up the whole thread.

"In hindsight, NIMBY histrionics are unjustified. In foresight too!"

The only exception I might grant is the Sheldon Chumir supervised consumption site. That one seems like it might have been a bit of a disaster.

Personally I think The Bow sucks specifically because it unbalances the skyline, but I don't recall anyone advancing that argument, nor do I think that would've been grounds to oppose the project. And I like the height and density, I just wish is was distributed better across downtown. Like if Oxford was our tallest and the East Village more substantial, the Skyline wouldn't have so much of a cliff at the East end.

I don’t think that the histrionics are unjustified. It’s that these things are built (or undertaken, whatever the case maybe), and at that point it’s done. There’s nothing to gain from constantly complaining about it anymore, so people move along.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Good thread idea!

The Peace Bridge has got to be up there in the top 10. The biggest waste of money AND one of the most internationally revered architectural projects in Calgary.

I honestly can't picture Calgary's skyline without it. It's an icon.

I still prefer st Patrick’s bridge and the peace bridge is still overpriced for what it is.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by SebC

Sums up the whole thread.

"In hindsight, NIMBY histrionics are unjustified. In foresight too!"

The only exception I might grant is the Sheldon Chumir supervised consumption site. That one seems like it might have been a bit of a disaster.

Personally I think The Bow sucks specifically because it unbalances the skyline, but I don't recall anyone advancing that argument, nor do I think that would've been grounds to oppose the project. And I like the height and density, I just wish is was distributed better across downtown. Like if Oxford was our tallest and the East Village more substantial, the Skyline wouldn't have so much of a cliff at the East end.

Hindsight is always an interesting POV when it comes to urban design. Definitely fun to take a look back into the design time machine. Did you ever see the original vision for the Bow Tower? Take a look at this early vision of the project below from Fosters + Partners; a good example of how designs, particularly of high profile projects, usually always go through different design iterations and critical feedback before the final vision is executed:



Another example: the original vision for the selected 2009 Studio Bell concept too, which was public at the time but ended up quite different from the architect's original vision:



As for NIMBYism, I've always had a chuckle at it when it relates to urban, high density areas. You live in an urban centre, where change and development is virtually guaranteed as a city grows. It's been happening for decades, if not generations, and will continue to happen as population changes, technology develops, economies ebb and flow, and society evolves. Perhaps the country or far-out suburbia would be a less stressful and more blissful experience for the NIMBYer.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

In hindsight, I should not have eaten that ghost pepper burrito. It feels like molten lava flowing thru my colon.

[The Yen Man]

I guess I still like the way Studio Bell looks now, but man, it would have looked amazing if it was closer to that initial design. The Bow, on the other hand, looked fugly initially. I'm glad they didn't go with the ears on top.

[jayswin]

Peace Bridge - Absurd whining about a project that ultimately changed the look of our city to the point of being featured in the New York Times, for what? A few million more than the bridge was going to cost if we went bare bones? Absolutely love the addition to our city.

Bow Tower - Amazing from the SW, very bulky and poorly dominating from most other skyline views in the city.

[Bigtime]

Ugh, the bait and switch with the York hotel for the Bow development makes me so angry. As did the value engineering of the Bow itself, pushing the floorplates out and getting rid of that atrium that would have stretched from the ground to the top, with garden sky pods interspersed.

Also don't forgot our Peace bridge thread did lead to that amazing CP collaborative "build a bridge" project. Featuring cowboy boots, hats, and other stuff I can't remember. Does anyone still have that picture kicking around of it? In the midst of all that debate we still managed to have a good laugh together doing that.

[CliffFletcher]

Even before covid, the BRT was barely used. Most times I saw a bus go by on it, there were zero passengers. I don’t know what the projected ridership numbers were to justify the enormous cost, but I’m extremely skeptical they will ever be reached.

But as Slava says, what does that matter now? The money is spent. When another project like this is proposed going forward, some will champion it because public transit is good and should always be supported; some will oppose it because they’re nimbys who never use transit. And the metrics we should be using to assess it - the realistic cost/benefit projections - will either be too complicated for the public to understand, or skewed by interested parties to push their desired outcome.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Even before covid, the BRT was barely used. Most times I saw a bus go by on it, there were zero passengers. I don’t know what the projected ridership numbers were to justify the enormous cost, but I’m extremely skeptical they will ever be reached.

But as Slava says, what does that matter now? The money is spent. When another project like this is proposed going forward, some will champion it because public transit is good and should always be supported; some will oppose it because they’re nimbys who never use transit. And the metrics we should be using to assess it - the realistic cost/benefit projections - will either be too complicated for the public to understand, or skewed by interested parties to push their desired outcome.

And sadly in today's climate, once the loudest have dug their heels in it becomes even less about the particular issue, but the tribalism.

I'll admit I was on the fence about this project, but the nature of the opposition pushed me onto the 'support' side.

I do wish/wonder if these busways could be more effective, by also permitting HOVs and/or EVs, or even a 'toll' system (monthly basis, not trip by trip). Obviously it would have required a slightly different design (wider pullouts at the stations).

Ultimately that would be a drop in the bucket, but even a couple hundred cars a day is better than nothing.

I don't drive it often enough to know...do ambulances at least take advantage of it?

[topfiverecords]

20/20 hindsight Calgary should have been where Canmore is.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Ugh, the bait and switch with the York hotel for the Bow development makes me so angry. As did the value engineering of the Bow itself, pushing the floorplates out and getting rid of that atrium that would have stretched from the ground to the top, with garden sky pods interspersed.

Also don't forgot our Peace bridge thread did lead to that amazing CP collaborative "build a bridge" project. Featuring cowboy boots, hats, and other stuff I can't remember. Does anyone still have that picture kicking around of it? In the midst of all that debate we still managed to have a good laugh together doing that.

I've lost track of the render. I cant even remember the thread I did it in.. was it the original peace bridge thread? Something like New bridge to be red like the Flames?

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Barnes

I've lost track of the render. I cant even remember the thread I did it in.. was it the original peace bridge thread? Something like New bridge to be red like the Flames?

I think it was that "new bridge to be red like the flames" thread.

[blankall]

In North America investing in transit is rarely a bad idea. If anything, it addresses the massive housing shortage issues we have. A train stop will facilitate people moving into an area. A city like Calgary desperately needs a way to address the issues of transporting people across the city without adding more cars on the road. If the transit isn't being used to full capacity now, it's only a matter of time until it is. Calgary is the fastest growing major city in Canada.

The BRT is a bit of a mixed bag, but any expansion that can be made to the rail system should be made.

[You Need a Thneed]

I must admit, the Airport Trail tunnel is a great way to get out to Deerfoot, or will be once the Barlow interchange is done and the 50kph zones are removed.

Starting to be able to fully feel the impact of that project now that it’s fully connected between Stoney to Harvest Hills Blvd, and now that Country Hills Blvd is full of lights like it was always going to be.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by blankall

In North America investing in transit is rarely a bad idea. If anything, it addresses the massive housing shortage issues we have. A train stop will facilitate people moving into an area. A city like Calgary desperately needs a way to address the issues of transporting people across the city without adding more cars on the road. If the transit isn't being used to full capacity now, it's only a matter of time until it is. Calgary is the fastest growing major city in Canada.

The BRT is a bit of a mixed bag, but any expansion that can be made to the rail system should be made.

If you think about it, a BRT system - assuming minimal movement interruptions and regular service - would be the most cost effective mode. But it has to be an equally attractive option as a train. I think the BRT option is worth exploring first before trains, especially if the existing road infrastructure will cater to improvements to make BRT fast and reliable.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If you think about it, a BRT system - assuming minimal movement interruptions and regular service - would be the most cost effective mode. But it has to be an equally attractive option as a train. I think the BRT option is worth exploring first before trains, especially if the existing road infrastructure will cater to improvements to make BRT fast and reliable.

BRT can also be implemented [relatively] quickly, and doesn't lead to as many messy signals/intersections. And it's more flexible.

For a sprawled city like ours, I think it makes a ton of sense to build BRT ROWs in as many choke points as possible.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If you think about it, a BRT system - assuming minimal movement interruptions and regular service - would be the most cost effective mode. But it has to be an equally attractive option as a train. I think the BRT option is worth exploring first before trains, especially if the existing road infrastructure will cater to improvements to make BRT fast and reliable.

The problem with BRT type systems is that they clog up entire lanes of traffic. The counter-argument to that is that they result in less cars in the road to be in those lanes of traffic, but when the city is always growing that doesn't really happen.