Revisiting Seattle's expansion draft

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Look at the coach hire. That hire doesn't scream we want to win now.

This is why, to me, it didn't matter who they drafted. Hakstol is a poor coach and would hamper any team they put on the ice.

[Heavy Jack]

Even more reason to snag guys like Tarasenko and Domi, they could have turned into multiple more futures/picks/prospects come trade deadline. Just a puzzling draft considering the amount of time they had to prepare for it.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

This is why, to me, it didn't matter who they drafted. Hakstol is a poor coach and would hamper any team they put on the ice.

I think it was by design. They still had to sell the team to a new city and it's hard to do that by telling them you aren't trying to win right away especially after people took notice of how Vegas built a contender overnight. They have never come out and said they were going to take a different approach to Vegas but almost all of Francis's actions point to an organization that's willing to take their lumps early in hopes of drafting franchise players in what looks to be some really good drafts upcoming. Personally I think they are doing the right thing here as if they can get a top 2 pick in one of the next two drafts it will be worth it and even if they don't win the draft lottery they should be inline for some very good players. Ducks didn't need to pick 1st overall to solidify their prospect base and turn around their organization.

[Toonage]

So instead of risking a higher than expected finish by drafting bigger name talent (even if you could sell them off at the deadline it would be to teams picking above 16) you draft as they did, leave yourself cap space moving forward and get a coach with less than stellar record who will almost ensure you finish bottom 10

Basically "we spent all this money on the team, make some of it back the first few years, draft well and have the dough to spend on talent when we're ready to contend and pay our home grown stars."

[Azhouse]

Their draft made no sense to me. I would have picked more star power to come out of the gate hot in front of the new fans. Sell a million Tarasenko Kraken jerseys.

And the people that want to re-sign Gio again after this year have quieted right down. I was happy to see him move on. It was the best case scenario as they probably would have re-signed him this season to an extension. He's way past his "young and fresh" stage.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

So instead of risking a higher than expected finish by drafting bigger name talent (even if you could sell them off at the deadline it would be to teams picking above 16) you draft as they did, leave yourself cap space moving forward and get a coach with less than stellar record who will almost ensure you finish bottom 10

Except they didn't commit to that either. They took Eberle, Gio, Larsson (I guess), Donskoi, Oleksiak. And the young guys they picked often were not the most promising prospects (eg why not Jake Bean). And they then went out and got Grubauer.

[Toonage]

Its puzzling. Then you might say, well they had to reach the floor.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Its puzzling. Then you might say, well they had to reach the floor.

It ain't that hard to reach the floor. The floor is $60M and they are $15M above it with their crap team.

[Toonage]

Reach the floor, have some talent under contract for when they are ready to compete/contend? I'm not sure what the long term strategy was when preparing for and executing that draft. But I think what I've presented makes as much sense as anything.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Reach the floor, have some talent under contract for when they are ready to compete/contend? I'm not sure what the long term strategy was when preparing for and executing that draft. But I think what I've presented makes as much sense as anything.

Except the bigger long term contracts are for 29-30 year olds like Gourde, Eberle, Tanev, Larsson. I doubt those guys will be around when they are ready to compete. Or they will have to be pushed out because any talented kids will demand $$ for their RFA contracts.

[Ped]

Francis not wanting to pick expensive players is fine. No one saw Duchene and Johansen having the years they are, but that's big money and big term.


No, the truly perplexing was the guys like Twarynski, Bayreuther, Quenneville, MacDermid, True - and there were better players and better assets available.

[GhostCookie]

I think they wanted to be like Vegas. But it's a combination of teams were wiser and made smarter moves ahead of the draft, and from the sounds of it, Francis absolutely wouldn't budge on price. So when it came down to it and Calgary wasn't willing to part with a first and third to protect Gio, why not just accept a third? Word was that that was what played out up and down the list of teams, that no one was willing to pay the kings ransom out to protect players (it does help that as mentioned prior, teams were smarter this go around so had less vulnerability).

But even if we are to believe they are playing 4D chess here and planned on getting Wright or Bedard, that doesn't track with their actions. As someone else said, they made a number of signings showing to be building towards competing, and they didn't even pick the best prospects. Plus, they aren't attached to anyone picked, meaning its more palatable to their fans to pick a bigger name (Tarasenko) and sell them for less than St. Louis would have been willing to. They could have been Arizona level for picks, just by grabbing names other teams were interested in and flipping them. And the draft lottery means you can't even guarantee you are getting the first OA anyways, making it a hell of a risky move.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

What's the point of this thread?

Comes on to chat site to read threads. Finds a new thread with chat where others are participating. Yells at OP and asks what the point of all this is.

[GhostCookie]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Comes on to chat site to read threads. Finds a new thread with chat where others are participating. Yells at OP and asks what the point of all this is.

To be fair, it's a little cold to be yelling at kids to stay off the lawn....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GhostCookie

I think they wanted to be like Vegas. But it's a combination of teams were wiser and made smarter moves ahead of the draft, and from the sounds of it, Francis absolutely wouldn't budge on price. So when it came down to it and Calgary wasn't willing to part with a first and third to protect Gio, why not just accept a third? Word was that that was what played out up and down the list of teams, that no one was willing to pay the kings ransom out to protect players (it does help that as mentioned prior, teams were smarter this go around so had less vulnerability).

But even if we are to believe they are playing 4D chess here and planned on getting Wright or Bedard, that doesn't track with their actions. As someone else said, they made a number of signings showing to be building towards competing, and they didn't even pick the best prospects. Plus, they aren't attached to anyone picked, meaning its more palatable to their fans to pick a bigger name (Tarasenko) and sell them for less than St. Louis would have been willing to. They could have been Arizona level for picks, just by grabbing names other teams were interested in and flipping them. And the draft lottery means you can't even guarantee you are getting the first OA anyways, making it a hell of a risky move.

The Gio decision is the most defendable - biggest name available, one year term only, so a TDL asset. They mystery to me is picking a decent young goalie like Dreidger, but then going out and signing Grubauer (and violating the CBA in their first crack at that too). Even though goalies have a longer lifespan, he's a risk of not being prime when they are competitive, and also a risk of winning too many games for them and taking them out of bottom 3.

[GhostCookie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Gio decision is the most defendable - biggest name available, one year term only, so a TDL asset. They mystery to me is picking a decent young goalie like Dreidger, but then going out and signing Grubauer (and violating the CBA in their first crack at that too). Even though goalies have a longer lifespan, he's a risk of not being prime when they are competitive, and also a risk of winning too many games for them and taking them out of bottom 3.

I couldn't agree more. Even with Gio, I don't think it was a bad choice, rather that they painted themselves into a corner with it. If the plan was tank and stock up, getting a pick and a potential prospect would be better than getting a TDL asset that underperformed last season, and would need to be good up to the TDL to be a sellable asset. If the plan was to be competitive, they left better talent unselected. Heck, they left better prospect talent unselected. I think you nailed it with the goalies, and I think that further backs up the theory that whether they were planning on competing or tanking, they obviously failed at execution.

[CliffFletcher]

Another mistake was blowing their UFA wad and cap space on Grubauer, who isn’t any better than the goalies they picked up in expansion. [edit: I see Gio just mentioned that].

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by GhostCookie

I couldn't agree more. Even with Gio, I don't think it was a bad choice, rather that they painted themselves into a corner with it. If the plan was tank and stock up, getting a pick and a potential prospect would be better than getting a TDL asset that underperformed last season, and would need to be good up to the TDL to be a sellable asset. If the plan was to be competitive, they left better talent unselected. Heck, they left better prospect talent unselected. I think you nailed it with the goalies, and I think that further backs up the theory that whether they were planning on competing or tanking, they obviously failed at execution.

This. 1000x.

Ron Francis was 50% pregnant. Not all in on one direction, and left most scratching their heads.

If they wanted to go young, there were better prospects, or tradable assets (like Gio) available. That’s not to speak of the possible trade scenarios that were out there.

If they wanted to go competitive and entertaining, players like Eberle, Gio and McCann made sense, but why not Terasenko, Ryan Johanson, etc.

If they wanted to give their fans players to get attached to, their most marketable player (IMO) and Captain is Gio, a player likely? to be traded, and unlikely? to be around more than a year.

Francis had a rep in Carolina as a guy incapable of negotiating the big deal. He sat and waited on his prospects to develop. They were good prospects, but waiting too long meant that his successors enjoyed the fruit of his labor. I feel like he has sold Seattle ownership on the long game, but the problem I see is his main failure to procure any additional draft capital in the expansion draft. It’s hard to believe, without knowing, there were no opportunities to get any 2-4 round picks out of this whole process if the long game was his plan all along.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They could have taken Kylington without a deal. See also Tarasenko, Dadonov, Neideraiter/Bean, Domi, Duchene, Milano.

Matt Duchene having a good season for the first time in 4 years and having 4 years left at 8 million is a bullet dodged, not a miss. The other players, given their lack of term on their deals are a different story.

[cannon7]

Francis is possibly the most overrated GM in the NHL.