[Signing] Sens sign Drake Batherson (6yrs, $4.975 mil AAV)

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Batherson is very good so this deal is very good.

At least it’s the opposite to the approach in Edmonton. “This deal is good so the player will be good”

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I can't argue this for the most part. Batherson may be getting fed to the wolves, and it's tough when that happens for players to overcome. I argued exactly this when it came to Bennett and his treatment in the Flames roster after his rookie season (slightly different circumstances, as Bennett's wolves were his own linemates in Jankowski and Brouwer)

The one thing I'd say is that in facing those tough circumstances, I feel like you'd like to see a bit more positivity from the underlying numbers to justify a 6 year contract like this. Right now it looks like a hot stretch on a powerplay jacked up his production. It'll be an important season for Batherson.

I can definitely understand that line of thinking. His relative numbers paint a brighter picture but again when a team is relying on a core group of 18-22 year old players to carry them the numbers are not going to be pretty for anyone (and they weren't).

I think most would agree that Batherson projects as a 65+ point guy moving forward. He's certainly got the skillset to do so.

I personally just don't see much risk with this deal.

[Johnny Makarov]

Well he better donate half his salary to the Flames. We airmailed him that contract.

[ricardodw]

Close to the same bet the Flames made on Andersson, except Andersson put up his good year as a spare part #5 D on the good 2018-19 Flame team.

At least Batherson spent a year in the top-6 if not top line.

There was no shelter on that Ottawa team.

[Psytic]

Probably one part trying to make a statement to the other guys on the team they are serious about keeping their players and competing with this young core.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Close to the same bet the Flames made on Andersson, except Andersson put up his good year as a spare part #5 D on the good 2018-19 Flame team.

At least Batherson spent a year in the top-6 if not top line.

There was no shelter on that Ottawa team.

Andersson was very good as a top-four D on the 2019–20 team...

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Andersson was very good as a top-four D on the 2019–20 team...

sort of

at even strength: 300 Min with Gio 400 with Hanifin and 500 on 3rd pairing... so VG top-4 is a bit of a stretch. He filled in when Hamonic and Brodie were hurt.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

At least it’s the opposite to the approach in Edmonton. “This deal is good so the player will be good”

They somehow manage to have takes that are both vanilla yet ridiculous at the same time

[Sandman]

Aside from the fact that the concept of the second contract has been destroyed, this is a pretty good contract that will look even better in a year or two. Good player with size, skating, and some skill.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Again, one 34 point season.

Might want a follow up performance before spending bonafide type cash for 6 years.

To play devils advocate a bit. Coleman's best season is 36 points. Granted, he had a higher pace in the last two shortened seasons. I think the Sens figure that if he keeps improving they will pay more now, and have a bargain towards the end of his contract when their window will open.



On a different note I can argue that both Hanifin and Andersson were overpaid in the first season(s) after signing their contracts. Hanifin is starting to look like a bargain, and Andersson hopefully rebounds from last season. Don't know enough about the player, but the Sens definitely see something they like in his game.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

To play devils advocate a bit. Coleman's best season is 36 points. Granted, he had a higher pace in the last two shortened seasons. I think the Sens figure that if he keeps improving they will pay more now, and have a bargain towards the end of his contract when their window will open.



On a different note I can argue that both Hanifin and Andersson were overpaid in the first season(s) after signing their contracts. Hanifin is starting to look like a bargain, and Andersson hopefully rebounds from last season. Don't know enough about the player, but the Sens definitely see something they like in his game.

Coleman has played many more seasons though, so you have a pretty good idea his offensive numbers will not get much better. Not necessarily the case with Batherson.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Coleman has played many more seasons though, so you have a pretty good idea his offensive numbers will not get much better. Not necessarily the case with Batherson.

OTOH, with Coleman you also have a pretty good idea of his consistency at a particular point level (and his overall game). Batherson can have a higher ceiling. But he’s also only had one season at the level for which he’s being paid. His previous two seasons were small sample sizes and below .5 PPG (though his AHL numbers are really good).

I would not be shocked if he has essentially a sophomore slump. I’d also not be surprised if he just carries on like he has, since he’s going to get ice time.

[The Cobra]

Batherson will be getting first line ice time and PP time with the senators best players.

The Senators have a pretty good idea what they have.

Better to sign him know to a below $5M AAV, then letting him pop with a likely 60 point season and have the cost go way up.

The upside in this contract greatly exceeds the downside.

Again, they know the player and what he can do. He’s only been held back by his line mates.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

OTOH, with Coleman you also have a pretty good idea of his consistency at a particular point level (and his overall game). Batherson can have a higher ceiling. But he’s also only had one season at the level for which he’s being paid. His previous two seasons were small sample sizes and below .5 PPG (though his AHL numbers are really good).

I would not be shocked if he has essentially a sophomore slump. I’d also not be surprised if he just carries on like he has, since he’s going to get ice time.

Coleman was 25 for his first full NHL season. His 36 point year was at age 26 playing with Zajac

The guy that he really closely compares to is Glencross. Coleman wore 20 in NJ and will be wearing 20 in Calgary.

Glencross's break through year was his first in Calgary 40 pts in 74 games at age 25

He had peaked at 48 pts at 28 and was out of hockey at 31.

Coleman just finished his 28 year old season.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Coleman was 25 for his first full NHL season. His 36 point year was at age 26 playing with Zajac

The guy that he really closely compares to is Glencross. Coleman wore 20 in NJ and will be wearing 20 in Calgary.

Glencross's break through year was his first in Calgary 40 pts in 74 games at age 25

He had peaked at 48 pts at 28 and was out of hockey at 31.

Coleman just finished his 28 year old season.

Compares "really closely" due to 1 similar season and the number they wore?

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Coleman was 25 for his first full NHL season. His 36 point year was at age 26 playing with Zajac

The guy that he really closely compares to is Glencross. Coleman wore 20 in NJ and will be wearing 20 in Calgary.

Glencross's break through year was his first in Calgary 40 pts in 74 games at age 25

He had peaked at 48 pts at 28 and was out of hockey at 31.

Coleman just finished his 28 year old season.

Oh it’s a ricardodw classic.

[Poe969]

How many cups did glencross win by 28?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Poe969

How many cups did glencross win by 28?

How many teams did Glencross play on where Gourde was the 3rd line centre?


You made me provide validation and I was wrong.. Glencross was slightly better than Coleman for his 25,26,27,28 yr old seasons, but Coleman hit more and got no pp time or points

Try to find more similar players over their first 4 years as NHL regulars that both became NHL regulars at age 25

Glencross 6-1 200 2008-09 through 2011-12

GP 287 Goals 78 Pts 164 ppg .57 +18 esp 127 ppp 27 shp 10 GWG 12 PIM 221 hits 387 Toi /gm 16:08 ES TOI/gm 12:44

Coleman 5-11 207 seasons 2017-18 through 2020-21

GP 278 Goals 70 Pts 124 ppg .45 +3 esp 104 ppp 7 shp 13 GWG 10 PIM 214 hits 741 Toi /gm 15:58 ES TOI/gm 13:03

That is not a slight on Coleman as Glencross was one of the best Flames forwards over those years, but expecting significantly more from Coleman at age 29 is not reasonable.

PS For the "hitting is a sign of weakness" faction they should be worried about Coleman's huge amount of hits.

[1qqaaz]

Yes I just hate how Coleman is about 33 years old halfway through his very long contract.

In that sense he's not comparable to Glencross (who was out of the league by that age).

Coleman is a very useful player, and he'll help the team win, but I don't think the Flames should have commit so much term to someone that age. However, he wouldn't have signed in Calgary in the first place if not for the contract's term. Therefore, I don't think the Flames should have signed him.

But this is a Batherson thread. He should trend upward, or at least be the same, for the majority of the contract. For that reason, I think it's a great deal. Batherson has it all. Plus he's from Indiana.

[Dajazz]

I feel bad for not knowing who this is.