Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2021 - Round 7

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Trying to remember ...

If we do a run off tomorrow do you graduate the winner and loser in order? Or do you graduate the winner, and throw the loser back into the pot to see if he wins the next round?

I think typically we graduate both.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

https://dobberprospects.com/2020/11/...november-2020/

https://twitter.com/user/status/1321915058490920963

https://twitter.com/user/status/1321877091856601095

Looks like he uses a Tomas Kaberle level of short stick lol.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

https://dobberprospects.com/2020/11/...november-2020/

https://twitter.com/user/status/1321915058490920963

https://twitter.com/user/status/1321877091856601095

Kinnvall is right there for me in the same tier with Stromgren and Kuznetsov, but I am a little hesitant to vote for him now because of how he fell off last season.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Kuznetsoff is also a very intelligent player. All-Scholastic in his college conference, no mean feat for someone with ESL.

[Plaedo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think typically we graduate both.

I've always preferred adding the loser back to the pool.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Kinnvall is right there for me in the same tier with Stromgren and Kuznetsov, but I am a little hesitant to vote for him now because of how he fell off last season.

Kinnvall left with an ankle injury after game 29 he was 7g 15a 22pts at that point. He only came back for three games afterwards and scored no points. He had a goal and three assists (4pts) in his 8 games leading to his injury. I wouldn't exactly call that falling off.

He still finished last season with an NHLe of 34pts, which is excellent for a 23 year old D man. My biggest concern is can he still rack up points outside of the power play.

[FBI]

Voted Ruzicka because on some of those AC highlights he looked like Ferland

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Kinnvall left with an ankle injury after game 29 he was 7g 15a 22pts at that point. He only came back for three games afterwards and scored no points. He had a goal and three assists (4pts) in his 8 games leading to his injury. I wouldn't exactly call that falling off.

He still finished last season with an NHLe of 34pts, which is excellent for a 23 year old D man. My biggest concern is can he still rack up points outside of the power play.

But wasn't he over a point per game after 15 games or so?
It seems like he fell off well before the injury.

I've been voting for him anyways, but he did seem to slow down.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think typically we graduate both.

I'd assume the loser would pretty much always win the next round.

I think the masses like to keep the pace up on this, so I'll graduate both if we go that way.

Me ... I say draw it out!

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

But wasn't he over a point per game after 15 games or so?
It seems like he fell off well before the injury.

I've been voting for him anyways, but he did seem to slow down.

absolutely slowed from a 2.0 ppg player to a 0.50 ppg player. Irrc he slowed down after a two-three week break after a covid scare on his team.


I dont want to make excuses for the player, but I have confidence in his consistency because the season previous (a normal seasom) he produced consistently.



Besides, I see nothing wrong with a player getting off to a hot start, if anything the Flames need a player who is at their best the first 10 games of the season.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd assume the loser would pretty much always win the next round.

I think the masses like to keep the pace up on this, so I'll graduate both if we go that way.

Me ... I say draw it out!

I agree, draw it out. One less hour a day people spend hour in the Eichel and Gaudreau thread.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd assume the loser would pretty much always win the next round.

I think the masses like to keep the pace up on this, so I'll graduate both if we go that way.

Me ... I say draw it out!

I get why you're saying that, but it is a waste of a day. First, we've already voted for these guys, and second, the loser is going to win the next vote easily, if they are thrown back in.

Boring, and no new information to be garnered from it. Graduate them both and get on with new fights!

[Finger Cookin]

[Sandman]

I agree with the sentiments on Kinnvall, Kuz, and Pospisil-I think those 3 are extremely underrated. I just can't stop thinking that we'll be very happy that we got Heineman in the Bennett trade-there's a lot to like in this player.

[Plaedo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I get why you're saying that, but it is a waste of a day. First, we've already voted for these guys, and second, the loser is going to win the next vote easily, if they are thrown back in.

Boring, and no new information to be garnered from it. Graduate them both and get on with new fights!

The loser won't necessarily win, especially if the draw is between two players with below 35% of the votes.

Also, there are plenty of days before the season picks up. My take is if you do a community ranking, you do it to properly reflect the popular vote.

[Bingo]

Thoughts on this one?

I think Stromgren has a big enough gap to just give him the win?

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Thoughts on this one?

I think Stromgren has a big enough gap to just give him the win?

I agree, Bingo.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Looks like he uses a Tomas Kaberle level of short stick lol.

To start, I know nothing and I realize it is 100% about comfort for the player but I think Valimaki uses a stick that is too long and should watch Kinvall or Kaberle.

I'm sure things like poke checks, on ice vision and keeping a gap might be advantageous to a longer stick but the NHL ice is smaller, things get on you quicker and you have little time and space. So if you get a puck in your skates: for a shot or if you are in your corner defending, have a forechecker on you, you sometimes need to be able to make that little bump pass to move the puck and relieve pressure.

Valimaki needs to do everything quicker this year. Did anyone ever see that Tom Brady clip where he saw the coaches notes on him in his rookie year and coach had written does everything slow, needs to play faster - and Brady said he took that to heart.

Valimaki is a great player - so smart, can control the game but he needs to play a lot faster.

“Brady once said that as a rookie he peeked at the notebook containing the coaches’ evaluation of him: ‘Everything he does is slow,’ it read. It was Brady’s leap between his rookie and second years that changed the Patriots forever. He has a daily obsession with fixing his deficiencies. After all, that’s his job.”

https://nesn.com/2015/12/patriots-qb...-coachs-notes/

Apologies for the derail on prospects but the stick issue was bugging me all last year with him.

[united]

Considered
Johannes Kinnvall
Ryan Francis
William Stromgren

This round was a tough one and all are honestly pretty interchangeable, in my opinion. The classic ceiling versus certainty dilemma comes into play that's for sure. In the end I went with Stromgren for pure ceiling over likelihood of playing.

Johannes Kinnvall
A defenceman nobody will mistake for Chris Tanev or Niklas Hjalmarsson, the right-shooting powerplay quarterback brings an exciting up-tempo brand of hockey to table, for better or for worse. Already demonstrating an NHL-caliber ability to command a powerplay, Kinnvall offers the coveted dual-threat from the top of the formation keeping penalty killers from cheating either pass or shoot. And while there is no denying his defensive shortcomings, I think his defensive play is getting somewhat underrated due to circumstance. Consider that Kinnvall played for the worst team in the SHL - the recently relegated HV71 - with sub .900 goaltending and you have a situation where help is not abundant and goaltending was unable to bail the team out. Per pick224, HV71 was outscored 21-16 with Kinnvall on the ice, but 62-26 with him on the bench, for instance. The Flames have a big flashing spot at RD3 but would they use it on a soft, offensively-minded defenceman? Probably not, but maybe he wins the job at camp and we have our own Tyson Barrie for 1/5 of the cost. Let's see.

Ceiling: NHL powerplay QB
Probable: AHL/Euro league all-star (Style: Tyson Barrie)
Floor: Minor leaguer/Euro league all-star

Ryan Francis
Similar to Jakob Pelletier in both height and per-game production, Francis is another "undersized" player who isn't afraid to get to the tough areas of the ice. In fact, this season, a handful of Francis' goals came within an arm's length of the blue paint. Though not possessing notable straight-line speed, Francis can be described using a term that has become prevalent in hockey parlance: a waterbug. In the neutral and offensive zones, Francis has the ability to take advantage of his lower centre of gravity by controlling defenders' feet and hips with shifty and erratic movement. This season, I saw a regression in defensive play from the winger-turned-centre but that was offset by a commensurate progression in offensive ability - Francis actually outpaced the highly-regarded Pelletier albeit by a sliver. All those positives in mind, translating an offence-focused game at 5'10 is more difficult than a defensive-focused game so his time in the AHL will tell us a lot. Wide variance player.

Ceiling: 2nd-line winger
Probable: AHL tweener (Style: Dillon Dube)
Floor: Bust

William Stromgren
Already 6'3 at 17 years old, Stromgren possess the frame old school scouts drool over. Add in his above average skating ability and you have a prospect that has tremendous potential should he and the Flames' development staff be able to round out the rest of his game. The offensively-focused winger displays a pro-caliber ability to protect the puck downlow, isn't afraid to get to the paint, and can beat pro goalies clean with his shot. Stromgren's hockey IQ really holds him back as his defensive contributions are subpar to be generous and he struggles utilizing his teammates on offence. Stromgren is really raw talent with impressive tools and if he puts it together could be a Pavel Buchnevic-type player. That said, hockey IQ is tough to overcome - boom or bust likely here.

Ceiling: 2nd-line winger
Probable: AHL/Euro league (Style: Pavel Buchnevic)
Floor: Bust

[united]

Here is how the two public models see the winner and close second. Please note that the criteria each model uses for star and NHLer is different! JFresh/TopDownHockey will almost always be lower than Bader's as their thresholds are a much higher standard so adjust accordingly.

Hockey Prospecting
Calgary's own, and fellow Flames fan, Byron Bader runs the excellent site, Hockey Prospecting. You have likely seen his graphics before. At just $25/year his site is a wonderful resource for any fan interested in prospects. You can register here and support Bader's work if you are interested: https://hockeyprospecting.com/register/

Spoiler!

JFresh/TopDownHockey
JFresh and his partner TopDownHockey introduced their NHLe model this year. You will be familiar with the NHL player graphics they produce regularly. At $7/month the subscription is a no-brainer for any hockey fan. You can register here and support their work if you are interested: https://www.patreon.com/jfreshhockey

Spoiler!