Treliving on the Fan

[FanIn80]

I still don't understand why Kylington doesn't get played more. Is he a bit rough in some areas? Sure, but that's why he needs to play. This guy has always struck me as being legitimate top-4 NHL guy who's just waiting for a real opportunity to develop enough to get there.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I still don't understand why Kylington doesn't get played more. Is he a bit rough in some areas? Sure, but that's why he needs to play. This guy has always struck me as being legitimate top-4 NHL guy who's just waiting for a real opportunity to develop enough to get there.

Seattle would be stupid not to take Kylington. And we’re all going to watch him explode.

[flames_fan_down_under]

The fact that he is surprised we aren't scoring as much as he expected worries me. Who was he expecting to turn the tide with this team? We have all been watching the same team over the last two seasons? What did he expect to change? We are in literally the exact same spot in 5 on 5 scoring this season compared to last season. 21st. It's basically the exact same group of players that he assembled, and he was expecting this to not be an issue?

2020/2021:

GF/GP - 25th
GF 5v5 - 21st

2019/2020

GF/GP - 20th
GF 5v5 - 21st

2018/2019

GF/GP - 3rd
GF 5v5 - 6th

2017/2018

GF/GP -27th
GF 5v5 - 27th

2016/2017

GF/GP - 16th
GF 5v5 - 21st

The outlier 2018/2019 season has been discussed a lot. I understand Brad hoping that the team rediscovers that production, but looking at the seasons around it, it's fairly obvious this team struggles to score 5 on 5.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I still don't understand why Kylington doesn't get played more. Is he a bit rough in some areas? Sure, but that's why he needs to play. This guy has always struck me as being legitimate top-4 NHL guy who's just waiting for a real opportunity to develop enough to get there.

I don’t understand why either. But it’s a fact that multiple coaches have seen him in games and in practice and gone a different way consistently.

Unless there’s contract/expansion stuff going on.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

The fact that he is surprised we aren't scoring as much as he expected worries me. Who was he expecting to turn the tide with this team? We have all been watching the same team over the last two seasons? What did he expect to change? We are in literally the exact same spot in 5 on 5 scoring this season compared to last season. 21st. It's basically the exact same group of players that he assembled, and he was expecting this to not be an issue?

2020/2021:

GF/GP - 25th
GF 5v5 - 21st

2019/2020

GF/GP - 20th
GF 5v5 - 21st

2018/2019

GF/GP - 3rd
GF 5v5 - 6th

2017/2018

GF/GP -27th
GF 5v5 - 27th

2016/2017

GF/GP - 16th
GF 5v5 - 21st

The outlier 2018/2019 season has been discussed a lot. I understand Brad hoping that the team rediscovers that production, but looking at the seasons around it, it's fairly obvious this team struggles to score 5 on 5.

I think he hoped for rebounds from the top 3 scorers, the same production from Tkachuk, and that Mangiapane and Dube would take a step. He probably expected more out of Leivo and maybe Simon.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I still don't understand why Kylington doesn't get played more. Is he a bit rough in some areas? Sure, but that's why he needs to play. This guy has always struck me as being legitimate top-4 NHL guy who's just waiting for a real opportunity to develop enough to get there.

I think he’s right around the corner from this as well. And I doubt the Flames let him out of their hands easily. He’s 4 months younger than Fox.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I think he’s right around the corner from this as well. And I doubt the Flames let him out of their hands easily. He’s 4 months younger than Fox.

It blows my mind how he goes weeks without playing, yet comes in like he hasn't missed a beat... but then they give him a followup game and he makes a mistake or two and then sits again for weeks.

So many players on this team make boneheaded plays but still suit up every game like nothing ever happened, yet Kylington is permanently in this one-and-done mistake zone.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think he hoped for rebounds from the top 3 scorers, the same production from Tkachuk, and that Mangiapane and Dube would take a step. He probably expected more out of Leivo and maybe Simon.

I hoped for the same things too, but sometimes you are what you are. And it is obvious this team is what it is. For him to express concern over the scoring makes me really concerned about Treliving's ability to give honest appraisals of his team. And pinning some of your hopes on bottom 6 players like Leivo and Simon is not really a plan.

Also in fairness to Mangiapane and Dube, both are in fact exceeding their previous years production. And it is honestly incredible they're doing this with basically every single one of their teammates assembling career worst seasons.

[topfiverecords]

The worst part was something along the lines “will let the season play out and then we’ll do an evaluation of where we’re at”.

You haven’t seen enough yet to know where we’re at?

[Manhattanboy]

This could be the darkest decade in decades.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think he hoped for rebounds from the top 3 scorers, the same production from Tkachuk, and that Mangiapane and Dube would take a step. He probably expected more out of Leivo and maybe Simon.

That’s not unreasonable

Leivo went from 19 points in 36 last year to 6 in 32

Simon, well, from 22 in 64 (including, I understand, time with Crosby) to zero points in 9 games


But yeah, when everybody across the board, from top line players all the way down the lineup, are underachieving to a man, well, that’s quite an achievement

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

This could be the darkest decade in decades.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

This could be the darkest decade in decades.

Well, the Oilers, Leafs, Jets, Hawks, Pens, Avs....all had to go through some pretty dark af years to get where they're at so...maybe it's time we go full-on suckage instead of being on the f-ing fringe all the time.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

The fact that he is surprised we aren't scoring as much as he expected worries me. Who was he expecting to turn the tide with this team? We have all been watching the same team over the last two seasons? What did he expect to change? We are in literally the exact same spot in 5 on 5 scoring this season compared to last season. 21st. It's basically the exact same group of players that he assembled, and he was expecting this to not be an issue?

2020/2021:

GF/GP - 25th
GF 5v5 - 21st

2019/2020

GF/GP - 20th
GF 5v5 - 21st

2018/2019

GF/GP - 3rd
GF 5v5 - 6th

2017/2018

GF/GP -27th
GF 5v5 - 27th

2016/2017

GF/GP - 16th
GF 5v5 - 21st

The outlier 2018/2019 season has been discussed a lot. I understand Brad hoping that the team rediscovers that production, but looking at the seasons around it, it's fairly obvious this team struggles to score 5 on 5.

If you look at the players though there was certainly a belief that we'd see something between 2018-19 and 2019-20

Sean Monahan had four seasons in a row at 1.9 1.95 2.3 and 2.6 points five on five per 60. That's an average of 2.2 points per 60 over four years with the trend going up every year.

2019-20 he went down to 1.5 this year 1.7.

Gaudreau's numbers are similar as they play together.

So last year was the outlier to a greater degree than 2018-19 and it was certainly not a huge leap to assume that 2.6 from 2018-19 and 1.5 from last year would normalize to his average of 2.2.

[bax]

Originally Posted by edslunch

That would be a very Treliving thing to do. I was under the impression that we have some good young D with potential, even if they haven’t progressed this year. Where we consistently struggle is at F... I hope they shoot for some high end talent there.

Just go with whoever they project to be the best player regardless of position. We need help everywhere.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I think Clarke is going to be the gem of the draft. He's got the fox-Makar skill set.

Beniers is getting slept on a bit because he's not as game breaking or eye popping as some of his predecessors, but IMO is one of the most complete forwards that has come through the top of the draft in a while. Offensive numbers are nothing to sneeze at too. When he puts on weight he will be tough to stop in tight. IMO he's somewhere between J Staal and Toews potential wise.

Power I am a bit more dubious of. He is huge, but IMO is a player who has benefited from physical superiority to his peers. Here's the thing though; he doesnt use his size as a weapon really, he's not physically dominating peers with brute strength. But his reach and puck control are used very effectively. I might have too much of a lense on him because he has been followed for a really long time, but I think he's more of an Erik Johnson than a weber or pronger.

Kent Johnson reminds me of a lankier sam bennett. His big point producing season came in the BCHL; hard to project if he actually has that sort of offensive upside.

I'm far from a prospect expert, but Johnson put up 27 points in 26 games as an NCAA freshman. Isn't that really good production? Especially for a draft eligible player?

For example Gaudreau put up 44 points in 44 games as an NCAA freshman the year after he was drafted.

[flames_fan_down_under]

So if I am looking at current even strength points per 60, 2.2 would put Monahan 80th in the league right in line with Valeri Nichushkin, Brandon Tanev and Maxime Comtois, and this is supposed to be a good thing?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I hoped for the same things too, but sometimes you are what you are. And it is obvious this team is what it is. For him to express concern over the scoring makes me really concerned about Treliving's ability to give honest appraisals of his team. And pinning some of your hopes on bottom 6 players like Leivo and Simon is not really a plan.

Also in fairness to Mangiapane and Dube, both are in fact exceeding their previous years production. And it is honestly incredible they're doing this with basically every single one of their teammates assembling career worst seasons.

TBF appraising the team this offseason was a choice between the team that finished first in 18-19 (but cracked in the POs) and the one that struggled in 19-20 (but had to deal with a surprise coaching change and then did marginally better in the playin and POs). Which is the true team? And even if you aren’t happy with them (I wasn’t) can you really just blow it up? The things you need are so hard to get - especially that 1C.

[Jacks]

Don't give up any assets to protect from expansion, just suck it up and lose your 11th best player. All of the stupid side deals is what turned Vegas into an instant contender, it wasn't the expansion rules themselves.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Don't give up any assets to protect from expansion, just suck it up and lose your 11th best player. All of the stupid side deals is what turned Vegas into an instant contender, it wasn't the expansion rules themselves.

I fully agree. If they took Gio , flames would get $6.6 million in cap space. That would be huge. Granted I have no idea who will be on our expansion list and don’t know what other teams will be leaving unprotected.