Death Row Drama Gains Star Support

[fredr123]

I thought this story would be apposite for this thread: http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5747476.html

DNA evidence is expensive and not nearly as accurate or case-breaking as television would have many of us believe. You can't just dab a dead body with cellophane tape and run the fibres you find through some magical database that has every bad guy's DNA and get a nice printout of your killer's picture and his exact whereabouts at that moment. I'll admit though that in the case of sexual assault if you can salvage a semen sample from the victim that can be extremely useful. In other cases not so much...

With respect to the death penalty I am not a big supporter. I for one am in no position to judge whether or not someone gets to live or die. That's a tremendous responsibility and no human being, with all our inherent faults and biases, has the ability to make those determinations. Putting even one innocent to death is unacceptable.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by fredr123

I thought this story would be apposite for this thread: http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5747476.html

DNA evidence is expensive and not nearly as accurate or case-breaking as television would have many of us believe. You can't just dab a dead body with cellophane tape and run the fibres you find through some magical database that has every bad guy's DNA and get a nice printout of your killer's picture and his exact whereabouts at that moment. I'll admit though that in the case of sexual assault if you can salvage a semen sample from the victim that can be extremely useful. In other cases not so much...

Well it is ture that the majority of what is seen on shows like CSI is fantasy at hte current time, the CODIS system in the United States is able to effectively match different crimes as well as uncover the identity of who left the sample (the laws differ from state to state regarding who has to provide a sample for the CODIS system).

With regards to the accuracy, it is just about as accurate as you can get. 0

[transplant99]

You can't just dab a dead body with cellophane tape and run the fibres you find through some magical database that has every bad guy's DNA and get a nice printout of your killer's picture and his exact whereabouts at that moment

No doubt.

however, and it's pretty much irrefutable, it can and has both proven guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt, and exonnerated others in the past.

Repeat offenders is a pretty good argument for having the death penalty available IMO. If you kill the guy the first time, innocent victims are spared in the future...that's just common sense.

I think where this debate gets sticky though, is that not all cases are the same. Not every case should have the death penalty available to it, but certainly others should. Impossible to split it up that way though, so it comes down to one or the other.

[Trujew]

Originally Posted by FireFly

A lot of people don't realize that it's more costly to have someone on death row than it is to keep them in jail forever.

Obviously, you dont realize its a lot cheaper to put $2 toilet cleaner in someones arm then it is to house feed and (for whatever reason they decided to) educate criminals on taxpayers money for 25+ years

[Winsor_Pilates]

I don't doubt that Tookee's guilty of the crime, but I think he's more valuable alive then dead anyway. If his books actually help keep children away from gangs, then he should be kept alive since that's more valuable to society.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yes to killing the heroin smuggler being shot or hung or whatever.

The person being hung made a choice to break a law that is a death penalty offense, and he did it for a selfish reason, so yes, sad as it is, he should be hung.

Are you saying that you would have problem with someone being hung for abducting a child for money.

Or someone being lethally injected for a murder for hire crime?

Yes the method is rough, but its the law of the land, and this person knew that drug crimes in Singapore are handled in this way. He took his chances and he lost.

IMO, you do raise a good point about the "law of the land." The guy knew what he was getting himself into and what the consequences would be if he got caught. Harsh penalty for sure, and I don't agree with it at all, but they make it pretty clear that that's the way it works over there (or so you have said).

Certainly there are criminals that deserve to die, and where the evidence can 100% guarantee their guilt then i'm almost inclined to support the death penalty in those cases. However, the judicial system is flawed and people can and have been put to death for crimes they didn't commit. What if someone got caught smuggling heroin into Singapore because it was planted in their suitcase or whatnot? They'd probably meet a similar fate as this Australian, and this is one of the big reason's why I don't support the death penalty...

Originally Posted by fotze

I think they should have a vote for the death penalty. Those who are for it are entered into a pool like jury duty where if pcked are the one who presses the button on the electric chair.

Dunno how feasible that is, but I think it's a great idea nonetheless. I would imagine many people that support the death penalty would reconsider if they had to pull the switch and watch someone die as a result...

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Trujew

Obviously, you dont realize its a lot cheaper to put $2 toilet cleaner in someones arm then it is to house feed and (for whatever reason they decided to) educate criminals on taxpayers money for 25+ years

That is a very true. Toilet cleaner is much cheaper than justice.

[habernac]

The Governator is not going to grant clemency. By the time most of you read this, Tookie Williams will be dead

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051213/...iams_execution

[CaptainCrunch]

Honestly, I'm not going to shed tears over this guy being put down, compared to what he put his victim through and how he bragged about it, he's getting off easy.

the Governor's right on one account, for all of the book writing that he did and other things, he never really owned up to what he did, showed remorse for the murder of an innocent man, which to me means his other actions were somewhat hollow.

[habernac]

I'm still not honestly sure what I think. He seems pretty adamant that he didn't do the crime. But his past certainly doesn't help him a whole heck of a lot. He started a gang that did lots of ****ty things, how hard would it be for a guy like that to lie his ass off? I still have trouble with the death penalty unless there's very conclusive evidence of a horrible crime.

Swarzenegger may get flack, but I think he thought long and hard and talked to a lot of people about the decision. Tough spot to be put in.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Honestly, I'm not going to shed tears over this guy being put down, compared to what he put his victim through and how he bragged about it, he's getting off easy.

I'm not going to shed any tears for the guy either, but I do wonder how poisoning him 26 years after the fact is going to do much good.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Trujew

Obviously, you dont realize its a lot cheaper to put $2 toilet cleaner in someones arm then it is to house feed and (for whatever reason they decided to) educate criminals on taxpayers money for 25+ years

The costs of the appeals associated with the death penalty, the extra security and whatnot all plays into the high costs of execution. But I guess the whole ensuring an innocent man doesn't die arguement doesn't matter to you right?

You educate criminals so they don't stay criminals, so the liklihood of them reoffending is decreased. It isn't just out of the best interests of the inmate, but also the best interests of society asa whole. Plus very few of them actually recieve any education in prison.

I would do a bit of reading on the matter though, it would significantly change your opinion.

[Winsor_Pilates]

There's no doubt that this guy was a bad man who did bad things, but if his new stance on things actually helped keep youth out of gangs, it may have prevented future crimes and murders.
I think part of this death penalty decision, should have looked at what is actually best for the society which he took from in the first place.
Maybe he served them better alive.
Anyway, too late now. RIP

PS- Did anyone else see the movie about him staring Jamie Foxx? One of the worst movies I ever saw.

[moon]

I am a huge supporter of the death penalty and think that it certainly should be used in this instance. However, I will grant that with individuals such as this perhaps staying the death penalty and leaving him with life in prison without the chance of parole may be the best decision.

One major reason that I like the idea of a death penalty, and there are others I could go into but it would take awhile and I am sure people don't need to hear my views on the issue, is that it provides an "out" as it were for some crimes. For example dude murdered multiple people and is in a stand-off with cops. No death penalty he gets life in prison. He kills a few cops in the stand-off same deal. Now with a death penalty he gives up and lives. Kills cops and he is facing the death penalty. There is a reason there for him to give up.

That is one very specific aspect of the death penalty but one that I would like to hear the opponents of it to comment on.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by moon

I am a huge supporter of the death penalty and think that it certainly should be used in this instance. However, I will grant that with individuals such as this perhaps staying the death penalty and leaving him with life in prison without the chance of parole may be the best decision.

One major reason that I like the idea of a death penalty, and there are others I could go into but it would take awhile and I am sure people don't need to hear my views on the issue, is that it provides an "out" as it were for some crimes. For example dude murdered multiple people and is in a stand-off with cops. No death penalty he gets life in prison. He kills a few cops in the stand-off same deal. Now with a death penalty he gives up and lives. Kills cops and he is facing the death penalty. There is a reason there for him to give up.

That is one very specific aspect of the death penalty but one that I would like to hear the opponents of it to comment on.

That scenario is about as likely as the criminal getting struck by a meteorite on the way to the paddywagon.

[moon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

That scenario is about as likely as the criminal getting struck by a meteorite on the way to the paddywagon.

The scernario that a criminal is cornered by cops??

Thinking about it perhaps you are right this is too much of a specific example and what I am getting at is that the deth penalty can be used as a bargaining chip with those that have nothing else to lose. Not the sole reason I cuppor the death penalty but an aspect of it that I certainly think is good.

[Neeper]

Did I hear right? It took 40 mins to excute him? 12 mins to find a vein in one arm and 3 min in the other arm.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm not going to shed any tears for the guy either, but I do wonder how poisoning him 26 years after the fact is going to do much good.

If that 60K saved 1 child would you?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by HOZ

If that 60K saved 1 child would you?

Huh?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by HOZ

If that 60K saved 1 child would you?

yes.

If keeping him alive saved 1 child, would you?