Cartoons upset Danish Muslims

[Hack&Lube]

It's an uncivilized act. It's heinous," said Hanifah Maidin, youth wing spokesman of the Pan-Malaysian Islamic party

So it's civilized to riot and assault embassies?



This is one of the comics they are talking about. I hope I didn't accidentally induce anybody into idolatry. Reminds me of the Bomb-Omb's from Super Mario 2.


Just so we get both sides of the coin...

http://wcbstv.com/local/local_story_033162841.html
"Anger over 'Osama bin Laden as Christ' artwork in NYC" (which wasn't even intended by the artist)

Of course, many historians point out the Christ probably looked that way, very much like a middle-eastern man like Bin Laden...not the blond, blue-eyed, perfectly shampooed European from paintings.

Originally Posted by sclitheroe@Oct 24 2005, 11:59 PM

Just for the record, Catholics do not worship icons or other religious symbolism such as statues, although admitedly, to non-Catholic Christians and others, the veneration heaped upon them can often look like it on the outside. Consider them tools for helping people express and visualize their faith in a tangible way.

It's argued that in the early days of Catholicism's influence on various societies and especially the integration with barbarian and pagan cultures throughout the centures that the Catholic statues, saint-worship, relic worhship, etc. were simply a translation of previous pagan practices. Look at how relics (including body parts) were used as wards, talismans, magic items, etc. and the simply massive number of saint statues and other possibly "graven" images that were instead considered sacred and employed in elaborate ritual. Early in his life, John Paul II worried that his worship of Mary was impinging on his worship to Christ. Even in Rome, the early Church encouraged such veneration as a form a idolatry as the preferable alternative to the idolatry still practiced by ancient Romans in the old empire. I think it's difficult for people of faiths like Protestant Christianity and Islam to understand how such things can be explained by the modern Cathollic apologetics that they are "tools".

Many Muslims react badly to Christians because they see the catholics as a bunch of idol worshippers who worship Christ's mother (well Christ too), and various saints, praying to them more than they actually prayed to God.

There's no god by Allah...well check out Steve Carell vs Steve Colbert Islam vs Christianity for some laughts.:

http://www.youtube.com/w/Even-Stevph...&search=Carell

[Cowperson]

Scandanavian embassies burn in Syria . . . . . and it goes without saying that wouldn't have happened without the Syrian government giving the okay.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4681294.stm

The media critic of the normally left-wing LA Times today offers his pointed yet beautifully formulated and defended intellectual opinion that is well worth the read - a snippet:

As the events of the last week have demonstrated pretty forcefully, all this is more than an historical curiosity, because the globalization of markets and peoples has brought the rest of the modern world to Islam whether Muslims want it or not. One of the minor paradoxes at work here is that long before the imams' fiery sermons sent people into the streets this week, they'd been whipped into a frenzy by quintessentially modern creations — cellphone text messages and the Internet. Islamic societies are enthusiastic consumers of nearly everything the modern West produces — except such indispensable values as separation of church and state and freedom of expression.

The West's current struggle with a murderous global Sunni Muslim insurgency and the threat of a nuclear-armed theocracy in Iran makes it clear that it's no longer possible to overlook the culture of intolerance, hatred and xenophobia that permeates the Islamic world. The hard work of rooting those things out will have to be done by honest Muslim leaders and intellectuals willing to retrace their tradition's steps and do the intellectual heavy lifting that participation in the modern world requires. They won't be helped, however, if Western governments continue to pander to Islamic sensitivity while looking away from violent Islamic intolerance. They won't be helped by European diplomats and officials who continue to ignore the officially sanctioned hate regularly directed at Jews by the Mideast's government-controlled media, while commiserating with Muslims offended by a few cartoons in the West's free news media.

http://www.latimes.com/cl-et-rutten4...track=morenews

Cowperson

[HOZ]

They won't be helped by European diplomats and officials who continue to ignore the officially sanctioned hate regularly directed at Jews by the Mideast's government-controlled media, while commiserating with Muslims offended by a few cartoons in the West's free news media.

I think this phrase should also include Canada as well since we like to parrot the Europeans in their great sophistication....

[Flame On]

All I know is that its so laughable of the muslims who are irate that their religious leaders/icons are portrayed as being violent and or having bombs and in order to show their disgust they turn to violence and bombs!
If you want some respect perhaps you should be able to show it yourselves as a whole. My 2.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Does this kind of incident alter your opinion of Muslims and if so, favourably or unfavourably?

Not for me, as I think religion in general is pretty screwed up.

Muslims, Christians, Jews, whatever.......to base your life around something/someone that may have not even existed (and more than likely did not), or does not exist today, seems pretty silly to me.

It's a cartoon in a newspaper...........life goes on.

Why kill (or threaten to kill) someone over it?

[Calgary Flames]

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Muslims are "bad guys?"

Does this kind of incident alter your opinion of Muslims and if so, favourably or unfavourably?

Cowperson

Well I think they do a good enough job making peoples minds up themselves. As with other religious zealots and their particular religions, nothing will stand in their way of ensuring that only their religion is left standing!
When will people wake up and see religion for what it really is?

Heres a few of the ongoing Muslim battles....

AFGHANISTAN: The war in Afghanistan is ongoing. Since Soviet troops withdrew, various Afghan groups have tried to eliminate their rivals. Although the Taliban strengthened their position in 1998 they have not achieved their final objective. Afghanistan harbours Osama bin Ladin, a wealthy Saudi Arabia dissident responsible for terrorist acts around the world. On 11 September 2001 members from bin Ladin's el Qaeda group highjacked 4 passenger jets in the USA, crashing one into the Pentagon and 2 into the World Trade Center, killing more than 2,000 citizens. The USA and its allies declared war on terrorism and counter-attacked, removing the Taliban from power. The war on terrorism and the el Qaeda continues.

ALGERIA: Armed Islamic groups formed and since 1992 have carried out attacks on key economic points, security forces, officials and foreigners. In 1995 Algeria's first multiparty presidential elections were held and the incumbent president Liamine Zeroual won 60% of the votes in a poll with a 75% turnout. The first multiparty legislative elections were held in June 1997 which were won by the National Democratic Rally, which holds the majority of seats along with the FLN. Although the armed wing of the FIS declared a ceasefire in October 1997, an extremist splinter group, the Islamic Armed Group (GIA), continued attacks. There is also evidence that many attacks are carried out by militias backed by the Algerian security forces. After years of civil strife, Amnesty International estimates that around 80,000 people have died
The Caucasus and Russia: The Central Asian republics have a long history of conflicts. Fighting breaks out regularly between warlords and religious groups calling for the establishment of Islamic states outside the Russian Federation. Russia is trying to hold on to the federation because the Caucasus is a vital supply route for the oil riches of the Caspian and Black Sea. With the break-up of the Soviet Union various groups fought for control in the republics. Conflicts from one republic spills over to the other and they continually blame each other for attacks. Chechnya, still part of Russia, was flung in an almost full-scale war in 1994-96 and, after a disastrous campaign, Russia was forced to re-evaluate its involvement in the area. In August 1999 Russia stepped up security in the Caucasus region as rebels from within Dagestan - a small republic where more than 100 languages are spoken - went on the attack in support of Chechnyan Muslim groups who claim independence from Russia. In September 1999 Russia launched a ground invasion into the area to cut rebels off from Central Asian supply routes. By January 2000 Russia was once again involved in a full scale conflict in Chechnya. The Caucasus issue is complicated by the more than 50 different ethnic groups each insisting to proclaim their religious convictions on the area. The situation holds serious danger for neighbouring countries, Kazakhstan, Georgia and Russia itself.

EYGPT: Fundamentalist Muslim rebels seek to topple the secular Egyptian government. At least 1,200 people have perished since the beginning of the rebellion. The conflict was primarily waged as an urban guerrilla/terrorist war. The opposition Muslim Brotherhood took part in elections in 2000, indicating that they felt armed force would not work.

INDONESIA: The struggle on the Indonesia islands is complicated by leaders of pro- and anti-independence movements, and by religious conflicts. More than 500 churches have been burned down or damaged by Muslims over the past six years. Both the Christians and Muslims blame each other for the violence and attempts at reconciliation made little progress. After a bloody struggle East Timor gained independence in 1999. The hostilities on other islands continue to claim dozens of lives, to such an extent that the break-up of Indonesia seem imminent.

INDIA/PAKISTAN: Muslim separatists in the Indian section declared a holy war against the mostly-Hindu India and started attacks in 1989, mainly from Pakistan-occupied section of Kashmir, and from Pakistan and Afghanistan. The conflict continues, with Pakistan also crushing rebellions with brute force in their section.

IRAQ: Supports Islamic terrorist acts around the world. Differing culture and religious groups within Iraq continues to clash with #####e Muslims.

ISRAEL: Within its own borders, Israel continues to battle various Muslim organizations that seek independence for a Palestine state, areas made up of the Gaza strip, West.Bank, and part of Jerusalem. There is heavy international pressure on Israel to recognise a Palestinian state. The area of what today is Palestine was settled by Semitic tribes at a very early date. It was then called Canaan, and controlled by Canaanite tribes for more than 1,000 years. In about 1500 BC Hebrew, or Jewish, tribes began to enter the area. They later came into conflict with a people of Greek origin known as the Philistines. It is from them that the term Palestine is derived.

IRAN: After the Iranian Revolution in 1979 toppled the government of the Shah, the Mujahadeen Khalq soon began a bloody guerrilla war against the new Islamic government. The Mujahadeen are currently based in Iraq and conduct cross-border raids into Iran, as well as conducting urban guerrilla operations in the cities and conducting political assassinations. Iran occasionally launches raids against Khalq bases in Iraq.

KOSOVO: The ethnic Albanian KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in this Serbian province fought a guerilla war against Serbia to claim the region. Beginning in February 1999, Albanians were forced out of the province, prompting NATO to attack Serbia. By July 1999 Serb troops were forced out of Kosovo, only to open an avenue for Albanian Kosovars to attack Serb Kosovars. The Albanian Muslims have since burned down dozens of centuries-old Christian churches. In an effort to establish a Greater Albania, Albanian Muslim rebels also launched attacks in Macedonia.

NIGERIA: There are violent religious clashes in the city of Kaduna in northern Nigeria beginning February 21 2004 and have continued. Kaduna is the second largest city in the north. The clashes followed a march by tens of thousands of Christians to protest the proposal to introduce Muslim sharia law as the criminal code throughout Kaduna state. Reports speak of rival armed gangs of Christians and Muslims roving the streets. Churches and mosques have been put to the torch. Corpses were seen lying in the streets and people's bodies hanging out of cars and buses, apparently killed while attempting to flee the violence. Local human rights workers said that more than 400 had been killed as a result of the clashes.

SUDAN: The largest country in Africa, has been plagued by a succession of unstable civilian and military governments since it gained independence in 1956 from an Anglo-Egyptian condominium. The long-running conflict continues between the Arab Muslim northerners of Sudan, (the base of the government), and the African Christians of the south. In the mid-90s Sudan was home to Osama bin Ladin, the international terrorist responsible for the World Trade Center attack. It is estimated that more than 1,2 million people have been killed in the Sudan war, brining devastation to the Sudanese economy.

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: At war with terrorism.

PHILIPPINES: The Phillipines armed forces, with assistance of US troops, are fighting Moslem rebels - they have been linked to Osama bin Laden's el Qaeda terrorist group - on the southern islands of the country. Muslim rebel groups seek autonomy/independence from the mostly Christian Philippines. One rebel group, the Abu Sayaf Group, is believed linked to Osama bin-Laden's Al-Qaida. This connection, plus their tactic of kidnapping and beheading Americans, led the United States to send Special Forces to aid the Philippine Army.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cheese

When will people wake up and see religion for what it really is?

As soon as people learn that you can't judge all by the actions of some.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FireFly

As soon as people learn that you can't judge all by the actions of some.

word.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Muslims are "bad guys?"

The quote talked about al qaeda. So obviously Ï had al qaeda and other nutbars in mind when I said bad guys. Come on Cow.

[Cheese]

A cartoon causes worldwide Demonstrations....

It just wont go away!

Nutbars on the loose!

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FireFly

As soon as people learn that you can't judge all by the actions of some.

So um...does that apply to all of the world's religions first? Maybe they should take a lead role!

[Cowperson]

Another day . . . . .

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/as...sts/index.html

New Zealand and Australia papers publish the caricatures.

London Police under pressure to arrest protesters who displayed placards demanding violence.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/eu...sts/index.html

Interesting subject of the day - Denmark apparently has a law against blasphemy and the Danish foreign minister was apparently trying to sell it to Muslim nations as a good point about his country . . . . . . should such a law even be on the books in a country that claims to be religiously tolerant?

"The Danish government urges all leaders, political and religious, in the countries concerned to call on their populations to remain calm and refrain from violence," Danish Foreign Minister Per Stig Moeller said in Copenhagen.

"We all have a responsibility to avoid that the situation escalates any further and to contain the violent protests and to return to dialogue."

Despite his government's repeated efforts in the past, Moeller seemed to struggle to get across the message to Muslims that his government, like most Western nations, does not control what is published.

"We do not print the papers -- the government does not print the papers," he said. "There's freedom of expression."

He repeatedly explained that Denmark has a law against blasphemy, and it is up to the courts -- not the Danish government -- to decide whether a newspaper is guilty of blasphemy.

Cowperson

[Cowperson]

An interesting backgrounder at BBC.com

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4678220.stm

Cowperson

[Calgary Flames]

Originally Posted by Cheese

So um...does that apply to all of the world's religions first? Maybe they should take a lead role!

Oh my jebus!! Cheese you are my hero. Quote of the century right here folks.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cheese

So um...does that apply to all of the world's religions first? Maybe they should take a lead role!

And some are. And some are not. Again Cheese, you lump all together, ignoring those who do not stand for judging others. Christ said 'judge not, lest ye be judged' as well as 'let he who hath no sin cast the first stone'. Some Christians believe in those words as much as some choose to ignore them. Frankly, they are my favorite words to quote to a Bible thumper who approaches me on the street.

Perhaps if religion were truly free, the religious wouldn't need to lash back so often.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FireFly

And some are. And some are not. Again Cheese, you lump all together, ignoring those who do not stand for judging others. Christ said 'judge not, lest ye be judged' as well as 'let he who hath no sin cast the first stone'. Some Christians believe in those words as much as some choose to ignore them. Frankly, they are my favorite words to quote to a Bible thumper who approaches me on the street.

Perhaps if religion were truly free, the religious wouldn't need to lash back so often.

Fly girl LOLOL....perhaps you can help a few of us with some info. Which major religion has not been involved in major skirmishes or wars in the last say 100-200 years?
Who is this Christ fella or gal and what proof do you have of this person? Are you sure you are quoting a deity?
Maybe its only possible for a religion to be free when it disposes of all its mortal enemies?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Cheese

So um...does that apply to all of the world's religions first? Maybe they should take a lead role!

Or maybe we could have Cheese not lumping religious people together. Religion is not neccessity for morals, but neither is religion a neccessity for violence and genocide.

Most Nazi's contemplating and developing the endojudenfrage were not religious, rather atheist lawyers and scientists who ferverently believed they were advancing Darwin and doing a humanity a great favor.

If your main issue is with religions starting wars or killing massive numbers of people, you should realize that most warfare in history was not religiously motivated but rather politically.

And Cheese, it's funny how it seems you read Firefly's post as a defense of religion and attacked it when she was more or less on your bloody side about how hypocritical some religious people are. Learn to read.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Or maybe we could have Cheese not lumping religious people together. Religion is not neccessity for morals, but neither is religion a neccessity for violence and genocide.

Most Nazi's contemplating and developing the endojudenfrage were not religious, rather atheist lawyers and scientists who ferverently believed they were advancing Darwin and doing a humanity a great favor.

If your main issue is with religions starting wars or killing massive numbers of people, you should realize that most warfare in history was not religiously motivated but rather politically.

And Cheese, it's funny how it seems you read Firefly's post as a defense of religion when she was more or less on your bloody side. Learn to read.

LOL..I love how youze guys attack me for asking simple questions YET never provide a specific answer to anything I ask. Its always ...Cheese lumping all religions together. Well you know what Hacker...I am! I havent hidden behind anything. My main issue is NOT about religions starting wars...although they certainly have and continue to do so....in the name of politics.
The Fly and I have a mutual understanding Lube, I dont think you do.
Oh its actually called Endlösung der Judenfrage.
The Atheist slant is pretty funny...maybe you can back that up with some facts...I need a good laugh today.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Fly girl LOLOL....perhaps you can help a few of us with some info. Which major religion has not been involved in major skirmishes or wars in the last say 100-200 years?
Who is this Christ fella or gal and what proof do you have of this person? Are you sure you are quoting a deity?
Maybe its only possible for a religion to be free when it disposes of all its mortal enemies?

I'm not saying they aren't involved in major skirmishes, and wars haven't been started because of religion, but I don't think Hitler was a religious fellow except that he was anti-Jew, and he he started a big, bloody war. So perhaps I should clump all (athiests, agnostics, I'm not quite sure what he was,) together as well? Perhaps you should tell me whether agnostics or athiests have not been involved in major skirmishes or wars either? You can't do that either.

Never said I was quoting a deity, said I was quoting a guy named Christ. Any proof that Plato really existed or do we just read his books that he didn't really write either? Maybe there's a table that Christ built still around, but maybe someone else will take credit for it, then we still don't know, do we?

My point is this, Cheese: Even Muslims have condemned the actions of those who are doing this. So by you clumping them all in together, you're saying that even those who don't agree with what's going on are bad by association. Is that fair? Is that right? Does that make you a better person because you aren't 'one of them'?

Maybe it's only possible for religions to be free when people don't insist on insulting them? I don't think the Danish Muslims are fighting right now to try and prove they're better, rather they're fighting over the insult the Danes have thrown at them and their religion.