Jan 27 Practice Notes

[SeanCharles]

I’ve been wanting Ryan on that line for a while so for that reason alone I like the new look lines.

That and Backlund is back where he belongs.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

This team needs a trade. Trying to fit puzzle pieces in the wrong spots.

Those lines are worth a try, I guess, but they just don't look right. Something needs to change.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

This team needs a trade. Trying to fit puzzle pieces in the wrong spots.

Those lines are worth a try, I guess, but they just don't look right. Something needs to change.

Don’t disagree.

It will take some moxy and intestinal fortitude to make the right moves without sacrificing the future.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
#Flames lines at practice:

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Gaudreau-Ryan-Monahan
Lucic-Backlund-Dube
Bennett-Jankowski-Rieder
Rinaldo-Robinson

I have a hard time believing that’s a line up to get you to the playoffs.

[Redrum]

I'm guessing the Ryan-Monahan thing is just like with Lindholm. Whoever takes the face-off depends on which side of the ice it's on. So change it up on paper whichever way makes you more comfortable. But yeah, it would be nice to get a RHS in there one of these days.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I have a hard time believing that’s a line up to get you to the playoffs.

If you just add one legit top six RW and jettison the extra weight at the bottom, certain people can move down the lineup and should excel in a lesser role, and others won't have to play outside of their natural position. So it will have a nice tangible trickle down effect.

Besides Ryan being put with Johnny-Mony, I'd try Bennett in Dube's place as he and Lucic apparently are way better together than apart.

Lucic / Bennett pairing:

56.25 CF% / 57.58 FF% / 54.08 SF% / 63.46 xGF%

[bubbsy]

I am not sure all this line juggling amounts to much.

If gaudreau, monahan, tkatchuk, Lindholm don't start collecting points at 1st line player rates, and the bottom 6 are basically zero offensive value whatsoever (backlund, Bennett, lucic, jankowski, reider) then the roster is too flawed for 1 trade to solve much.

Last year the top guys carried the team and the depth came thru when those guys went cold. Maybe this is the year where hopefully both groups hit their stride together all of a sudden???

All I know is that I want to see a rejuvenated gaudreau for the 2nd half of the season. He's been an absolute garbage player all over the ice all season. That being said, he's proven to be an ineffective player come the last chunk of the season and spring time. Will be damn near impossible for him to get out of his funk just as tight checking hockey kicks in.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Gaudreau and Monahan posted incredibly gaudy fancy stats when with Ryan 5v5 last year. This was when he was being used as a RW who could step in for a shift with the two and take faceoffs after Lindholm had just finished killing a penalty.

Corsi, Fenwick, GF%, shot rates.... everything was incredible for those 3 when they were together. Not even Lindholm had the same boosting effect on the two that Ryan had.

Gaudreau 2018-19:

With Ryan (89:42 played together 5v5):
61.90 CF% / 61.82 FF% / 61.84 SF% / 68.44 xGF%

With Lindholm:
55.56 CF% / 54.30 FF% / 54.42 SF% / 55.15 xGF%


Monahan 2018-19:
(sample size with Ryan is much smaller though, so numbers are quite skewed)

With Ryan(13:12 played together 5v5):
72.00 CF% / 83.33 FF% / 81.82 SF% / 100.00 xGF%

With Lindholm:
53.58 CF% / 52.70 FF% / 52.46 SF% / 56.52 xGF%

[bubbsy]

The other thing I just am sick of. Wtf is Bennett doing with jankowski? Like it's been 3 frigin years where that has been fugly. 3 years! People here are using 13 mins of sample size to justify these combos yet we all ignore this obvious mismatch???

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

The other thing I just am sick of. Wtf is Bennett doing with jankowski? Like it's been 3 frigin years where that has been fugly. 3 years! People here are using 13 mins of sample size to justify these combos yet we all ignore this obvious mismatch???

It's actually the only time Jankowski has really been "okay" over the last three seasons. They let Bennett help carry the Janko line, even though it's hurt Bennett's play IMO.

Together:
TOI: 951:04
CF%: 52.2%
HDCF%: 58.8%
xGF%: 54.3%
GF%: 30 for, 41 against - 42.3%
PDO: 0.974

Janko w/o Bennett:
TOI: 990:46
CF%: 50.7%
HDCF%: 46.8%
xGF%: 49.7%
GF%: 29 for, 42 against - 40.8%
PDO: 0.976

Bennett w/o Janko
TOI: 990:46
CF%: 53.0%
HDCF%: 53.1%
xGF%: 52.3%
GF%: 42 for, 45 against - 48.3%
PDO: 0.992

Bennett on that line helps keep the line above water from a chances, and shots perspective.

Honestly we need to add a winger just in the hope that it pushes Janko out of the lineup, and lets us run Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund, Ryan as our top 4 centers.

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Honestly we need to add a winger just in the hope that it pushes Janko out of the lineup, and lets us run Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund, Ryan as our top 4 centers.

not disagreeing but why do the Flames have to wait? why not push Janko to the wing (if he's going to be playing anyway) and use the other centres as you've suggested?

they did it to Backlund and no potentially either Ryan or Monahan.

[DeluxeMoustache]

They are really forcing a few things here.

I would like to see the Flames go back to last year’s top line. Looking at the assets they have available, they stubbornly and steadfastly insist on doing certain things that aren’t working.

You know who isn’t a winger? Backlund.
You need a RHS on wing? Lindholm. (And he can chip in defensively like Hossa used to do, without forcing him into the C slot)
That wasn’t just a good line, it was one of the top lines in the league.
You know who isn’t a top 6 winger yet? Mangiapane
I’d like to see Bennett get a chunk of games with top 6 linemates.

Lucic isn’t as bad as people make him out to be and it seemed when Ward played him with Johnny, the Flames has some different looks

I have trouble with how listless the team is. I do wonder if Ward is the guy who can break them out of it

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

They are really forcing a few things here.

I would like to see the Flames go back to last year’s top line. Looking at the assets they have available, they stubbornly and steadfastly insist on doing certain things that aren’t working.

You know who isn’t a winger? Backlund.
You need a RHS on wing? Lindholm. (And he can chip in defensively like Hossa used to do, without forcing him into the C slot)
That wasn’t just a good line, it was one of the top lines in the league.
You know who isn’t a top 6 winger yet? Mangiapane
I’d like to see Bennett get a chunk of games with top 6 linemates.

Lucic isn’t as bad as people make him out to be and it seemed when Ward played him with Johnny, the Flames has some different looks

I have trouble with how listless the team is. I do wonder if Ward is the guy who can break them out of it

Yeah the guy who has 6 points this season is definitely a better top 6 candidate than mangi.

Are you Bennett's mom?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

They are really forcing a few things here.

I would like to see the Flames go back to last year’s top line. Looking at the assets they have available, they stubbornly and steadfastly insist on doing certain things that aren’t working.

You know who isn’t a winger? Backlund.
You need a RHS on wing? Lindholm. (And he can chip in defensively like Hossa used to do, without forcing him into the C slot)
That wasn’t just a good line, it was one of the top lines in the league.
You know who isn’t a top 6 winger yet? Mangiapane
I’d like to see Bennett get a chunk of games with top 6 linemates.

Lucic isn’t as bad as people make him out to be and it seemed when Ward played him with Johnny, the Flames has some different looks

I have trouble with how listless the team is. I do wonder if Ward is the guy who can break them out of it

Lindholm is maybe the best top line RW option production wise, and like you say he's good defensively. However, centering Tkachuk is probably a better use of his talents. They tried Backlund as a replacement because he is also good defensively, drives from the wing a lot anyway. But he seems to have lost his offensive touch, and moreover, has trouble staying out of Monahan's way. So Ryan, as a defensive minded, right shooting guy who can take right side draws like Lindholm is a decent idea. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the fact that Ryan is drawn up as C and Monahan as RW - I think they will line up based on which ever side they are on. Ryan will play as the C generally in the defensive zone I suspect. Offensively the will probably just go to open ice.

The only issue for me is whether Ryan will do OK with the extra minutes and heavier checking. This isn't a bad game to do that evaluation.

[Gaskal]

Mangiapane is one of the best fancy-stats line drivers this season, rivalling Tkachuk in terms of improving his linemates.

Out of every linemate he's played with at even strength with 30 minutes or more TOI together, Kylington is the only one that doesn't seem to have chemistry. Everyone else who's spent significant time playing with him enjoys a boost to some extent.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah the guy who has 6 points this season is definitely a better top 6 candidate than mangi.

Are you Bennett's mom?

Mangiapane has a 10 game pointless streak on the line.

Your streak is at least one post

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Mangiapane is one of the best fancy-stats line drivers this season, rivalling Tkachuk in terms of improving his linemates.

Out of every linemate he's played with at even strength with 30 minutes or more TOI together, Kylington is the only one that doesn't seem to have chemistry. Everyone else who's spent significant time playing with him enjoys a boost to some extent.

Implied productivity has to take a back seat to production. I see a guy getting knocked down a lot, generating little in the way of dangerous chances, and 10 games pointless despite playing with arguably the two best forwards on the team

This team was as advanced stats darling under Gulutzan too. Big deal

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah the guy who has 6 points this season is definitely a better top 6 candidate than mangi.

Are you Bennett's mom?

C'mon you know it is everyone else's fault that Bennett doesn't improve. The other players are all better when Bennett is on their line.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Lindholm is maybe the best top line RW option production wise, and like you say he's good defensively. However, centering Tkachuk is probably a better use of his talents. They tried Backlund as a replacement because he is also good defensively, drives from the wing a lot anyway. But he seems to have lost his offensive touch, and moreover, has trouble staying out of Monahan's way. So Ryan, as a defensive minded, right shooting guy who can take right side draws like Lindholm is a decent idea. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the fact that Ryan is drawn up as C and Monahan as RW - I think they will line up based on which ever side they are on. Ryan will play as the C generally in the defensive zone I suspect. Offensively the will probably just go to open ice.

The only issue for me is whether Ryan will do OK with the extra minutes and heavier checking. This isn't a bad game to do that evaluation.

The issue to me is whether the team is going to play to their potential or keep underachieving individually and collectively.

This shouldn’t be a bubble team

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Implied productivity has to take a back seat to production. I see a guy getting knocked down a lot, generating little in the way of dangerous chances, and 10 games pointless despite playing with arguably the two best forwards on the team

This team was as advanced stats darling under Gulutzan too. Big deal

Mangiapane passes the eye test for me ... he can't finish. He's the epitome of the 2019-20 Calgary Flames.

Yes he falls down a lot. Yes his production isn't very good.

But outside of Gaudreau and Tkachuk he's really the only forward on the team that can create something out of nothing.