Russian Commandos storm school

[Displaced Flames fan]

Killing innocent children should be, if it isn't already, a human morality isssue...not just a Western one. So despite your diatribe on why we in the West have brought this upon ourselves because we think our morals are the right morals, I'll stick to my original point, slip my head back up through the surface of the sewage that you've been trying to drown that point with and proclaim once again.....anyone who hurts innocent children has a MENTAL DEFECT.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally posted by fotze@Sep 3 2004, 02:25 PM
If they could invent remote control soldiers, imagine the computer nerd armies we could have at out disposal. Recruiting from LAN parties and Doomoffs.

I was referring to the book. I hate the game. In the book, the teams goes though a mission just like this one.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Sep 4 2004, 01:41 AM
Killing innocent children should be, if it isn't already, a human morality isssue...not just a Western one. So despite your diatribe on why we in the West have brought this upon ourselves because we think our morals are the right morals, I'll stick to my original point, slip my head back up through the surface of the sewage that you've been trying to drown that point with and proclaim once again.....anyone who hurts innocent children has a MENTAL DEFECT.

No doubt, the bloody cowards (one of the lighter words that comes to mind actually) fired weapons on children who were running away. How can anyone think that the morals of a different nation might be different with regard to that event. I don't know whether it is a mental defect or whether the people who did that are just pure evil though. Some of the stories that I have read are making my skin crawl. Reading about a woman who had to leave her six year old daughter behind in the school while being allowed to take her 2 year old son out (she was only allowed to choose one child to bring to saftey). For you parents out there, just imagine having to choose between your children as to who would live, and to who had a good chance of dying. Just thinking about that makes me a combination of upset, sad and hell I will admit it, it feels like I am on the edge of crying for them. I hope all the vicims rest in peace, and the terrorist scumbags who did this can rot in hell where they belong.

[HOZ]

Fromt he reports I have seen and read it looks like the terrorists suckered the police in or stormed out of the school with guns blazing.

Whatever happened the terrorists are the ones that started the fighting and the police weren't ready hence the lengthy shootout.

Very, very horrible!

[Cowperson]

Body count now at 320, including 155 children.

Of those hospitalized, a further 97 children are listed in grave condition.

New evidence suggested the attack had been planned long beforehand. A regional security officer told the Interfax news agency that militants had smuggled the explosives and weapons into the school and hidden them under the floor during a renovation this summer.

An update.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5881958/

Cowperson

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Sep 3 2004, 09:36 AM
Its funny up until the theatre rescue Russians used Spetznaz, a highly specialized group of special warfare soldiers. Highly trained, highly specialized they had a reputation for competance especially for situations like this one.

It would be interesting to know who these commando's were, I have a feeling that they might have been attached to law enforcement as opposed to military.

Today's Telegraph (London) piece carried in the Herald mentions Spetznaz as leading the assault.

As competent as I'm sure they are in tactical situations, I wonder if this specific unit was trained in counter terror / hostage rescue. Sure doesn't look like it. When local villagers join in with WW2 rifles you definately do not have situational control....

Stunning... absolutely stunning....

[Ozymandias]

Although Russian forces can be blamed for a lack of coordination at this point, I think it's more the doing of unorthodox, highly-volatile terrorists trying to raise the stakes by simply massacring their hostages. This doesn't sound like a normal terrorist situation because the violence didn't appear to erupt as a result of Russian efforts. The terrorists appear to have started the violence themselves.

I think this might be the turing point in Putin's mass popularity. We'll see how this all unravels politically.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by I-Hate-Hulse+Sep 4 2004, 02:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (I-Hate-Hulse @ Sep 4 2004, 02:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaptainCrunch@Sep 3 2004, 09:36 AM
Its funny up until the theatre rescue Russians used Spetznaz, a highly specialized group of special warfare soldiers.# Highly trained, highly specialized they had a reputation for competance especially for situations like this one.

It would be interesting to know who these commando's were, I have a feeling that they might have been attached to law enforcement as opposed to military.

Today's Telegraph (London) piece carried in the Herald mentions Spetznaz as leading the assault.

As competent as I'm sure they are in tactical situations, I wonder if this specific unit was trained in counter terror / hostage rescue. Sure doesn't look like it. When local villagers join in with WW2 rifles you definately do not have situational control....

Stunning... absolutely stunning.... [/b][/quote]
This still dosen't sound like thier work. I've read a couple of outside books on these guys and they rank with the British SIS in a lot of ways or the Israeli special forces commando's who's name escapes me.

However they did lose control of the situation and were forced into a very reactive fight which gave the advantage to terrorists

I think this might be the turing point in Putin's mass popularity. We'll see how this all unravels politically.
I-Hate-Hulse Posted on Sep 4 2004, 02:38 PM

In which way?

[Cowperson]

Vladimir Putin with some stunning admissions today:

Speaking to his nation in a televised address Saturday, the Kremlin leader said the Soviet Union's collapse had left the country unable to react to attacks and warned: "Weak people are beaten."

Putin said the government must develop more effective ways of securing itself and improving its actions against terrorists.

"Here, it would have been more effective if we acted in time and more professionally," he said.

"We have to admit we did not pay much attention to the complexities and to the dangers of this process of what was going on in our own country and the world as a whole."

Sounds like a conclusion of the 9/11 Commission in the USA.

He also said security forces handled the situation inadequately and must be better prepared in the future.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/04...utin/index.html

Cowperson

[transplant99]

North Ossetia government spokesman Lev Dzugayev told CNN that 323 hostages, including 156 children, died in the siege in the southern town of Beslan.

In addition, 26 hostage-takers -- including 10 people from Arab countries -- and at least 10 Russian special forces were killed. The two-day standoff ended Friday after Russian forces stormed the school amid explosions and intense gunfire.

More than 700 people were wounded, officials said.

Dzugayev said Saturday evening that 448 people were still in hospitals in the region, including 248 children. Among the total hospitalized, 69 were in serious condition.

Just freaking unbelievable.

You HAVE to wonder what these terrorist groups think they are accomplishing with this kind of crap.

Brutal..no other way to descibe it.

[Reaper]

Basically, if you're taken hostage in the former Soviet Union don't count on a happy outcome because the odds are pretty good that you'll end up dead or severly injured.

[peter12]

Originally posted by Reaper@Sep 4 2004, 01:25 PM
Basically, if you're taken hostage in the former Soviet Union don't count on a happy outcome because the odds are pretty good that you'll end up dead or severly injured.

And chances are you will be killed or wounded by your own side too.

[Reaper]

Originally posted by peter12+Sep 4 2004, 02:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (peter12 @ Sep 4 2004, 02:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Reaper@Sep 4 2004, 01:25 PM
Basically, if you're taken hostage in the former Soviet Union don't count on a happy outcome because the odds are pretty good that you'll end up dead or severly injured.

And chances are you will be killed or wounded by your own side too. [/b][/quote]
That was my thought, exactly.