Sportsnet: Four Flames D among the best at executing breakouts

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

He struggled for 2 years without being stapled to Giordano, we can't hang out hats on the anomaly when Giordano was hurt.

That's your narrarive.

His pair struggled, when he was paired with Dennis Wideman, when Dennis Wideman was no longer an NHLer.

His pair thrived, after acquiring Mike Stone, even though Mike Stone had been awful all year and wasn't a true top 4 defenseman. In fact this pair was one of the bright spots on the 2017 Playoffs.

His pair struggled, when he was initially paired with Travis Hamonic, when Hamonic's gap control was a total loosey goosey mess. Their on-ice shooting percentage and save percentage, both factors typically outside of skaters' control, were also not favourable.

His pair began to thrive, later in the season, but team shooting percentage was #### across the board. It did not help that just as Brodie had put together a strong couple of months, his season ended prematurely due to injury.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That's your narrarive.

His pair struggled, when he was paired with Dennis Wideman, when Dennis Wideman was no longer an NHLer.

His pair thrived, after acquiring Mike Stone, even though Mike Stone had been awful all year and wasn't a true top 4 defenseman. In fact this pair was one of the bright spots on the 2017 Playoffs.

His pair struggled, when he was initially paired with Travis Hamonic, when Hamonic's gap control was a total loosey goosey mess. Their on-ice shooting percentage and save percentage, both factors typically outside of skaters' control, were also not favourable.

His pair began to thrive, later in the season, but team shooting percentage was #### across the board. It did not help that just as Brodie had put together a strong couple of months, his season ended prematurely due to injury.

Stone is another example of Brodie looking great for a short period of time.

Putting all the problems of the Hamonic/Brodie pairing on Hammer is absolutely ridiculous. Brodie was just as much of a mess as Hamonic.

You really should stop pushing down one guy just to make the one you like more look better.

[Geeoff]

TBH I think Brodie was a little unlucky in the sense that whenever he made a bad giveaway, it seemed to end up in the Flames' net.

I dunno if there's an advanced stat that shows that but I'd imagine Brodie would be among the leaders in % of giveaways that led to a goal against

[FlamesAddiction]

I would be curious to know if Andersson was more effective when he was paired with Gio and if that skews the results a little.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Stone is another example of Brodie looking great for a short period of time.



Putting all the problems of the Hamonic/Brodie pairing on Hammer is absolutely ridiculous. Brodie was just as much of a mess as Hamonic.



You really should stop pushing down one guy just to make the one you like more look better.

Has anyone here ever had to work on a collaborative project for work or school before? Sometimes you just don’t gel with certain people and their work habits, and you do the best you can because it’s out of your hands.

It doesn’t necessarily mean you nor the other person involved suck at your jobs. There doesn’t always have to be a culprit.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

TBH I think Brodie was a little unlucky in the sense that whenever he made a bad giveaway, it seemed to end up in the Flames' net.

I dunno if there's an advanced stat that shows that but I'd imagine Brodie would be among the leaders in % of giveaways that led to a goal against

It's more so that he relies on more higher risk breakouts. If you look at the chart, he uses the outlet pass less than anyone else ranked near him. He needs to use that more and carry it out and use the stretch pass less, it would make him considerably more effective because we wouldn't be seeing the egregious turnovers.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Has anyone here ever had to work on a collaborative project for work or school before? Sometimes you just don’t gel with certain people and their work habits, and you do the best you can because it’s out of your hands.

It doesn’t necessarily mean you nor the other person involved suck at your jobs. There doesn’t always have to be a culprit.

I can fully accept that they didn't work great together. I've been reading comments from the hard core Brodie supports all summer and they always put down Hamonic to try and make Brodie look better and it's gotten tiresome.

[Flamette]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

He struggled for 2 years without being stapled to Giordano, we can't hang out hats on the anomaly when Giordano was hurt.

Think Gulutzan was maybe more of the issue?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Stone is another example of Brodie looking great for a short period of time.

The period of time where his partner displayed the basic competency expected of a top 4 role?

Yes.

Putting all the problems of the Hamonic/Brodie pairing on Hammer is absolutely ridiculous. Brodie was just as much of a mess as Hamonic.

Brodie wasn't a mess, though. In fact once Hamonic stopped being a mess, the pair wasn't nearly as bad as their puck luck would suggest. They were highly unlucky, like the entire team that season.

Once Hamonic stopped being Kris Russell, the pair played a very respectable game. The results were not there so people like yourself act as if Brodie was a liability.

And even at his best, Hamonic was absolutely an offensive liability. Just as he was last year.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

The period of time where his partner displayed the basic competency expected of a top 4 role?

Yes.



Brodie wasn't a mess, though. In fact once Hamonic stopped being a mess, the pair wasn't nearly as bad as their puck luck would suggest. They were highly unlucky, like the entire team that season.

Once Hamonic stopped being Kris Russell, the pair played a very respectable game. The results were not there so people like yourself act as if Brodie was a liability.

And even at his best, Hamonic was absolutely an offensive liability. Just as he was last year.

Your opinions on Hamonic are among the worst I have ever come across. I think I will just stop wasting my time engaging in this with you.

[jlh2640]

No way ! Jay Bouwmeester and Brodie dont suck at hockey ! Everyone on this site must be so upset

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Flamette

Think Gulutzan was maybe more of the issue?

No, I don't. I also don't but the left/right side excuse either. I think Giordano is an elite defenseman and not only did he make Brodie look like a top pair defenseman, he made Hamilton look like one too. Without Giordano, they are both #3s.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

He struggled for 2 years without being stapled to Giordano, we can't hang out hats on the anomaly when Giordano was hurt.

I'm not. I am merely pointing out that he has done this in the past. It is an inaccuracy that I am correcting.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think Brodie's poor play in the past had a lot more to do with the system than who his partner was. At any rate, for the group of people that feel like it is all about Giordano making Brodie look good (which I disagree with completely), who the F cares? Last time I checked, Giordano is still on the team, and the Giordano - Brodie pairing is UNQUESTIONABLY elite.


At any rate, this thread supports my notion that Brodie is the most dynamic defencemen that this team has, and when the Flames need a goal, I want the puck on his stick to lead the transition. I have stated this a number of times in the past, and it is nice to know that my obvious bias when it comes to Brodie is actually supported.


I hope the Flames keep Brodie, and that he re-signs at a good rate. Kid is dynamic out there and helps the Flames generate a tonne of offence. He really makes this team seem a lot quicker.

[Strange Brew]

^would you pay Brodie $7.5 million for 5+ years? And Hamonic $5M+ over the same term? And who knows that Rasmus will be looking at. That one’s a wildcard.

Maybe I’m way off but I suspect those are the kind of numbers you’re looking at.

[bubbsy]

Pretty awesome. I also think a lot of credit has to go to peters and the coaching staff.

If this was the Gulutzan 'slow everything down' once you win back the puck in the d zone, 5 d to d passes before attempting a 5 man breakout, the same personnel wouldn't be in this conversation.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

^would you pay Brodie $7.5 million for 5+ years? And Hamonic $5M+ over the same term? And who knows that Rasmus will be looking at. That one’s a wildcard.

Maybe I’m way off but I suspect those are the kind of numbers you’re looking at.

As a UFA, I would not be too shocked to see Brodie get that. I was thinking around $6.5 million, but you never know with UFAs.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

^would you pay Brodie $7.5 million for 5+ years? And Hamonic $5M+ over the same term? And who knows that Rasmus will be looking at. That one’s a wildcard.

Maybe I’m way off but I suspect those are the kind of numbers you’re looking at.

I think those numbers are possible, but the Flames are obvious ready to go their separate ways from Brodie. He won't be back next season. I could see the Flames paying $5 million/yr on Hamonic for 5 years extension. I wouldn't want to pay him any more than that.

I don't think Andersson will be in a position to demand a ton for his next contract, because Brodie will still get most of the time with Giordano. Personally, I see him topping off as a 2nd pairing defenseman.

[GioforPM]

Brodie could get that much I suppose. But I think UFAs will not commands top dollar unless they are elite and Brodie is shy of that level. The RFAs may squeeze the salaries of players like Brodie in the next few years. In fact I think Brodie is as likely to get about what he does now as he is likely to get a substantial raise.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Brodie could get that much I suppose. But I think UFAs will not commands top dollar unless they are elite and Brodie is shy of that level. The RFAs may squeeze the salaries of players like Brodie in the next few years. In fact I think Brodie is as likely to get about what he does now as he is likely to get a substantial raise.

$7.5mil AAV is not elite UFA money, it's for decent players now, like Brodie. Elite UFA's , especially defenseman are in the $9.5-$11 range now. 7.5 is not even close to "top dollars".