Friggin' Cyclists - We need to punish these people

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I don't recall advocating for people to run red lights.

I think you misunderstand.

I posted the recent news article and bolded those sections to point out that even constantly running the red light and killing another person would only get that cyclist 6 months. At the very worst.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

You’re advocating a law to punish her for carrying out a lawful activity.

But you want her to break the law.

Sounds reasonable.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I believe we need a new law that prohibits cyclists from riding on roads when they'll be impeding traffic by taking up a whole lane. That is, if they can't stay to the right to allow traffic to pass, they can't be on the road. You may disagree, but it's not an unreasonable position.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by chemgear

I think you misunderstand.

I posted the recent news article and bolded those sections to point out that even constantly running the red light and killing another person would only get that cyclist 6 months. At the very worst.

How much do drivers get for running red lights and killing pedestrians?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well there are two issues here:

1. safety
2. traffic obstruction

For safety, I've suggested her walking her bike. I'd argue that is her safest option, so it's not like I have no regard for safety here.

If the sidewalk is empty of foot traffic, it's not unsafe for her to ride her bike on it. Sidewalks are empty 99.9% of the time on this portion of the commute, so it's a good option for her. Is it illegal? Yeah, but in a minor way in the same way going 5 km/h over the speed limit is illegal, but you're safer doing that to keep up with traffic than to hold the line at the limit and piss off everyone around you.

She could also get off the road immediately after she clears the intersection off the main road to allow cars to flow into and through the neighbourhood better and she could take a longer commute through the residential roads that don't see traffic (aside from local).

There are many options for her to safely vacate the street that blocks the dozens of people she currently affects.

The other point is traffic obstruction - she is inconsiderately obstructing many people when there are better options that would only affect her.



No, there are options beyond that that are free and require no maintenance.

Walking a bike on a sidewalk that may or may not have icy packed snow is certainly not safer for her. There’s no safety issue for anyone else. Driving slow isn’t unsafe.

Traffic obstruction seems to be your main issue. Riding bikes on a sidewalk is illegal, for good reasons. Bikes in close proximity to pedestrians are dangerous to pedestrians in much the same way that bikes in close proximity to cars is dangerous to the cyclists. You can convert sidewalks into pathways, but that is still treating cyclists like pedestrians, and asking cyclists to follow pedestrian rules. This is not really a good option, because it seriously discourages cycling.

It’s a lot more that your one specific issue in your location, but the real solution is to create a separate set of laws that apply to cyclists (instead of being forced to treat them either like motorists or pedestrians), and actually have separate infrastructure for them, instead of forcing them to use infrastructure designed for cars or for pedestrians).

In low traffic areas, infrastructure can be shared safely, but we need separated infrastructure in much more places than we have it now.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

This is actually a great solution for this location. It's along Acadia off Anderson and it goes road, grass boulevard, sidewalk. They could paint a yellow line on there for now with a view to widening the sidewalk toward the grass into a proper Fish Creek-style bike path in the future. I hadn't thought of that, but it would really solve the problem for everyone since she can't seem to use her judgement to determine that she'd be safer and many people would cease to be inconvenienced by her on a daily basis if she road on the sidewalk despite its illegality.

The city has, I believe around 5 million a year set aside for cycle infrastructure, which is about what it costs to have all the bike lanes put in downtown. So lots of funds there. I know they are looknig for where to add stuff like this, so this may be a case where pointing it out to someone in charge may actually get the result you are looking for.



Of course, she will still be permitted to ride in front of you on the road, but at least the option will exist, and she may use it. I suspect she's not all that happy trundling along with a row of impatient cars behind her, either and would welcome an alternative that doesn't involve weaving through side streets.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by chemgear

I think you misunderstand.

I posted the recent news article and bolded those sections to point out that even constantly running the red light and killing another person would only get that cyclist 6 months. At the very worst.

I see what you're saying now, sorry.

That may be a different conversation, though. What is a fair punishment for something like that? Running a red light on a bike is potentially dangerous, but I doubt the fellow had murder on the mind whilst doing it. Even six months in jail for that sounds a little extreme. Sad situation for sure. Mbates is probably best to weigh in on the rationale behind the sentencing - definitely not me.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by chemgear

I think you misunderstand.

I posted the recent news article and bolded those sections to point out that even constantly running the red light and killing another person would only get that cyclist 6 months. At the very worst.

Its the same punishment for a person in a car AFAIK.

[GGG]

I’m surprised Acadia north of Anderson is an issue. That’s a pretty wide road isn’t it? I don’t see why if she is on a fat bike she can’t be riding on the uncleared part. Unless they are just plotting the windrow into the curb lane. I only go from Anderson to the turn off to the golf course but I am surprised there are issues there.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The city has, I believe around 5 million a year set aside for cycle infrastructure, which is about what it costs to have all the bike lanes put in downtown. So lots of funds there. I know they are looknig for where to add stuff like this, so this may be a case where pointing it out to someone in charge may actually get the result you are looking for.

Of course, she will still be permitted to ride in front of you on the road, but at least the option will exist, and she may use it. I suspect she's not all that happy trundling along with a row of impatient cars behind her, either and would welcome an alternative that doesn't involve weaving through side streets.

Yeah, I doubt she would be happy with all the annoyed drivers behind her as she struggles up the incline. I would think a sixth sense would be tingling in that scenario of all the frustration caused in her wake. I know I'd feel it. That's why I'm surprised I encounter her day after day. It can't be hard to come up with an alternate route. When I bike home in the summer I come from the exact same direction and just pop up into the neighbourhood right off Anderson instead of mucking around on Acadia. Like, it is possible she's just not that smart. 50% of people are below average intelligence and all that.

Good to know about the funds. I will 311 this with your logic, although I've had zero luck having 311 do anything except try to placate me on anything I've ever called on without actually doing any work.

I need this to piss of a stay at home mom with the time to champion a bigger push on the issue, but all the SAH moms I know avoid rush hour like the plague so this likely wouldn't even register as an issue for them.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Maybe I wasn't clear. I believe we need a new law that prohibits cyclists from riding on roads when they'll be impeding traffic by taking up a whole lane. That is, if they can't stay to the right to allow traffic to pass, they can't be on the road. You may disagree, but it's not an unreasonable position.

But you you want them to break a law that already exists.

Therefore, why advocate for a new law when you don’t think they should comply with an existing law?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Good to know about the funds. I will 311 this with your logic, although I've had zero luck having 311 do anything except try to placate me on anything I've ever called on without actually doing any work.

I've had about 95% success with 311, so maybe it's the quality of your complaints.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

I’m surprised Acadia north of Anderson is an issue. That’s a pretty wide road isn’t it? I don’t see why if she is on a fat bike she can’t be riding on the uncleared part. Unless they are just plotting the windrow into the curb lane. I only go from Anderson to the turn off to the golf course but I am surprised there are issues there.

There are two lanes on Acadia for that section before the first set of lights, after which it goes to one very wide lane. The dual turning lane that feeds Acadia after Anderson is packed at rush hour, so this cyclist blocks the whole right lane. You'll always have a person waiting to turn left off Acadia, which stops the left lane. Traffic flow gets unnecessarily bogged down because of this one struggler.

Adding frustration for me, is then this cyclist turns off when I do, then takes my next turn, and on it goes so I'm staring at her put in half effort for quintuple the amount of time I have the patience to deal with.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by barnet flame

but you you want them to break a law that already exists.

Therefore, why advocate for a new law when you don’t think they should comply with an existing law?

Because it will alleviate the entire problem immediately. Does it help if i shout?

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I cycle as well (not in the winter), but would never have the gall to hold up dozens of people so I can selfishly putt along inhibiting the flow of traffic.

Maybe it's just payback for when you take up people's time on the internet.

[Kybosh]

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Because it will alleviate the entire problem immediately. Does it help if i shout?

No it won’t.

There is a law preventing her from cycling on the sidewalk.

Yet you’re expecting her to cycle on the sidewalk.

You seem to want people to only respect laws that suit you.

If we all felt the same way, and acted accordingly, it wouldn’t matter what law was on the books, because there’d be anarchy.

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

I think you can get ticketed for driving too slow? So I don’t see why the speed limit on a road wouldn’t apply to a cyclist in the middle of a lane. Try calling the cops

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

No it won’t.

There is a law preventing her from cycling on the sidewalk.

Yet you’re expecting her to cycle on the sidewalk.

You seem to want people to only respect laws that suit you.

If we all felt the same way, and acted accordingly, it wouldn’t matter what law was on the books, because there’d be anarchy.

What about where I said she could walk her bike on the sidewalk or take side streets? Honestly, what's going on with you that you can't follow along?

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Salt Water Cowboy #10

I think you can get ticketed for driving too slow? So I don’t see why the speed limit on a road wouldn’t apply to a cyclist in the middle of a lane. Try calling the cops

Do this. He needs to call the police and cite Section 2(1)(c) and Section 3(1)(b) of Alberta Regulation 304/2002. It sounds like she isn't riding as close as possible to the curb and is impeding traffic.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

What about where I said she could walk her bike on the sidewalk or take side streets? Honestly, what's going on with you that you can't follow along?

Asking her to walk is not a reasonable option. She is using the infrastructure that is in place.