GM Layoffs

[Shin Pad]

Originally Posted by billybob123

Like guzzy said above, they currently manufacture the Impala in Oshawa and are canceling the model along with the Volt, Cruze, LaCrosse, and the XTS and CT6. Some production of the Cruze may be done elsewhere but not the Impala. They are also closing four plants in the US (two in Michigan, one in Ohio, and one in Maryland).

https://driving.ca/chevrolet/volt/au...-lacrosse-cars

Has nothing to do with moving production to Mexico.

It's frustrating as a car guy that no one wants to make cars anymore. I will never buy a cuv or suv. I'd rather drive a van but even at that I can still get my kids in the car and all the stuff I need into the trunk of either of my cars. Am I alone I this?

My daily driver is a model that is no longer manufactured by a company that has also essentially abandoned car building in favour of pickup trucks and suv. Maybe this should go in the RGMG thread.

ETA the Oshawa plant also makes the XTS (does anyone actually buy these? I don't think I've ever seen one on the road) and used to make the Buick Regal, which is now built in Germany. It's an Opel car, so not suprirising they build in Germany.

I'm the opposite - I own a truck and an SUV and I would rather drive one of them than a car. I live in the country and I hardly ever go into the city. If I had to commute to work in the city, then I'd probably own a small, fuel efficient car, but I'd still want my truck as my main vehicle.

[Dion]

The writing was on the wall 5 years ago.

Joe McCabe, president of auto industry consulting firm AutoForecast Solutions, said last week that remaining production in Oshawa is vulnerable, predicting a possible full closure by 2019.

In making his prediction McCabe points a domestic production agreement that expires in 2016.

In return for a multibillion-dollar bailout by the province and federal government made during the auto industry collapse, the automotive giant agreed in 2009 to keep 16% of its continental production in Canada through to 2016.

Meanwhile, Canada's share of vehicle production has been declining, with auto investment continuing to ramp up in Mexico.

Oshawa's GM production is especially vulnerable, McCabe said, with a full closure possible by 2019.

As GM vehicles and parts in Canada can be built elsewhere and products can move easily across borders in free trade agreements, it puts investment in Canada at risk -- particularly when stacked against lower-cost areas that produce the same amount of vehicles.

The proportion of GM vehicles built in Canada that are bought domestically is also low, McCabe said, and larger auto manufacturers have a natural inclination to produce where they sell.

He adds the Canadian plants always had a "value-added" boost, including "high quality, high-skilled labour."

"That factor has, and will always continue to be, a benefit to the Canadian automotive landscape," he said.

"But business is business. And if something can be built at a similar quality and be done at cheaper cost, then the numbers outweigh that benefit."

https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer....19-consultant/

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Shin Pad

I'm the opposite - I own a truck and an SUV and I would rather drive one of them than a car. I live in the country and I hardly ever go into the city. If I had to commute to work in the city, then I'd probably own a small, fuel efficient car, but I'd still want my truck as my main vehicle.

I live in the city and except for a few hundred kms in and old sports car on sunday drives I couldn't drive a car in this city, I guess I'm just use to being up high.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Yes, it's definitely in their rights of course. But let's be honest. The company is very profitable, and just accepted a bunch of tax benefits they used to buy back stocks to further jack up their value.
.

Accepted?

Didn’t know they had a choice.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Yes, it's definitely in their rights of course. But let's be honest. The company is very profitable, and just accepted a bunch of tax benefits they used to buy back stocks to further jack up their value.

It's our right as consumer to say, "You know what, you shouldn't be throwing people out on the street to boost shareholder value and we won't shop with you". This isn't about forcing GM to be unprofitable to keep Canadians employed. They're choosing to be even more profitable at the expense of decent paying jobs in the States and Canada, where consumers buy their product. If we as a consumer group don't care and let them do it, then no ones job is safe.

I realize CP is the land of 1%ers though.

Where are you getting that GM is very profitable? It looks to me like they've been losing money for most of the last year, and their stock price is down 10% from this time last year. Tax cuts were more than offset by steel tariffs which have much more effect on their margins.

The knock against GM when they almost go bankrupt every 5-10 years is that they are too slow to adapt to changing markets. It's good to see them being proactive.

I don't know why people get so worked up about these old economy jobs. It's really time everyone realizes that North America moved on from factory jobs decades ago.

[Erick Estrada]

It's not just GM but Ford is dropping the Fusion, Taurus, Focus, and Fiesta in North America. By 2020 the Mustang will be the only traditional car available in Ford Dealerships. Chryslers only sells the Charger/Challenger (outdated platforms) and is surviving on Jeep and Ram sales. GM is just following the other domestic brands as nobody was buying their sedans relative to CUV/SUV's. If you are a factory worker in any sedan manufacturing facility in north America you probably shouldn't feel overly comfortable about your long term employment. In the big picture the only vehicles domestics are good at making are pickup trucks and pony cars so it's makes sense that they focus on what they are good at. Still it's a shame because they have employed thousands of North Americans over the decades but they just haven't been able to build competitive cars and I don't even think their CUV/SUV's are that great relative to the German, Korean, and Japanese offerings.

The bigger issue for Canada is that when these facilities shut down what is there for the workers to switch to? It's not like companies are setting up shop in our country and other companies are looking to move in and take GM's place. Canada is in a bit of a predicament as we have become unattractive for business investment and we are going to need our government to step up in a big way to stop the bleeding.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

The knock against GM when they almost go bankrupt every 5-10 years is that they are too slow to adapt to changing markets. It's good to see them being proactive.
.

Here's a short story on how Barra is doing just that.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...pw3?li=BBnb7Kz

[White Out 403]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough about what my point was I was trying to make, or, maybe I was and people don't care or agree.

GM is highly profitable, and they're still laying off 15% of their workforce. These jobs are being replaced by jobs in Mexico and not just by GM. What surprises me isn't that people think it may make business sense. Maybe they will save money and it will be better for business. What surprises me is what I said was consumers should vote with their wallet and punish manufactures that want to sell us products but move the work out of country. Make it so GM has to take a little less profit to keep jobs in Canada. But it seems even that is a little far for people? When did we become sheep like this? In a city of 8% unemployment shouldn't people care that their fellow worker is getting bounced so profitable business can be even a little more profitable? This has to be the biggest example of "not my pig not my farm" I can think of in a long time. Workers of North America seem to have zero pride anymore and it's become a dog eat dog world of FYGM.

All these people who were making a decent living will soon be making a lot less, or nothing. That means all our tax burden goes up. And why? So cheap Mexican labour can build SUV's instead of the plants up here doing it? So GM can make a few million more in profits on top of their billions in profits?

No wonder people crap on striking workers and wages have stagnated with inflation for decades. Corporations have turned us against each other and made us to feel "blessed" to have decent work, or in some cases, just "work" no matter how low paying and ####ty it is. Expect more for our workers and country ffs. God damn it guys.

[billybob123]

It looks like GM is still making the Malibu, Regal, and ATS/CTS. That mid-size sedan is my car of choice.

Will these cars survive? The ATS is actually a pretty great car to drive vs 3-series BMW and C-class Mercedes. But if people aren't buying them?

Also rerofitability, have we forgotten that GM needed a bailout from both the Canadian and US governments to stave off bankruptcy less than 10 years ago? They dug themselves a grave by continuing to build vehicles people didn't want to buy. Is that what they are supposed to continue? Build cars no one buys to keep a factory open? That way they guarantee all their plants close because I doubt they get another bailout.

[OMG!WTF!]

I dunno. I went through a Bruce Springsteen phase when I was like 14. I learned a few things. One, don't ever have unprotected sex beside a river. Two, don't ever go to Vietnam. Three, don't out live your fastball. And four, don't ever for any reason work in a mill, plant or factory. It never ends well. This is nothing new. It's like we forgot what jobs actually are.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Maybe I wasn't clear enough about what my point was I was trying to make, or, maybe I was and people don't care or agree.

GM is highly profitable, and they're still laying off 15% of their workforce. These jobs are being replaced by jobs in Mexico and not just by GM. What surprises me isn't that people think it may make business sense. Maybe they will save money and it will be better for business. What surprises me is what I said was consumers should vote with their wallet and punish manufactures that want to sell us products but move the work out of country. Make it so GM has to take a little less profit to keep jobs in Canada. But it seems even that is a little far for people? When did we become sheep like this? In a city of 8% unemployment shouldn't people care that their fellow worker is getting bounced so profitable business can be even a little more profitable? This has to be the biggest example of "not my pig not my farm" I can think of in a long time. Workers of North America seem to have zero pride anymore and it's become a dog eat dog world of FYGM.

All these people who were making a decent living will soon be making a lot less, or nothing. That means all our tax burden goes up. And why? So cheap Mexican labour can build SUV's instead of the plants up here doing it? So GM can make a few million more in profits on top of their billions in profits?

No wonder people crap on striking workers and wages have stagnated with inflation for decades. Corporations have turned us against each other and made us to feel "blessed" to have decent work, or in some cases, just "work" no matter how low paying and ####ty it is. Expect more for our workers and country ffs. God damn it guys.

Your whole premise is based on GM being highly profitable. This is not true, they've been barely breaking even for the last year.

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/c...ors/net-income

[CaptainCrunch]

Manufacturing sectors in the first world are going to go the way of the dodo. Frankly we can't compete with the lure of the China's, India's and Mexico's for example where they have low labor costs, next to no environmental over sight and slack worker protection laws.


Frankly if Ontario is going to depend on manufacturing as a key segment, they're going to get kicked in the teeth more often then not.


Canada is seeing the decline of two of its major product sectors. Oil and Gas and Manufacturing. Even the cry of going tech and becoming some kind of silicon valley might be too late with a lot of those jobs moving to cheaper jurisdictions.


That leaves resource exploitation, agriculture and finance/real estate.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Manufacturing sectors in the first world are going to go the way of the dodo. Frankly we can't compete with the lure of the China's, India's and Mexico's for example where they have low labor costs, next to no environmental over sight and slack worker protection laws.

Those are called right to work states, in America

[you&me]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Maybe I wasn't clear enough about what my point was I was trying to make, or, maybe I was and people don't care or agree.

GM is highly profitable, and they're still laying off 15% of their workforce. These jobs are being replaced by jobs in Mexico and not just by GM. What surprises me isn't that people think it may make business sense. Maybe they will save money and it will be better for business. What surprises me is what I said was consumers should vote with their wallet and punish manufactures that want to sell us products but move the work out of country. Make it so GM has to take a little less profit to keep jobs in Canada. But it seems even that is a little far for people? When did we become sheep like this? In a city of 8% unemployment shouldn't people care that their fellow worker is getting bounced so profitable business can be even a little more profitable? This has to be the biggest example of "not my pig not my farm" I can think of in a long time. Workers of North America seem to have zero pride anymore and it's become a dog eat dog world of FYGM.

All these people who were making a decent living will soon be making a lot less, or nothing. That means all our tax burden goes up. And why? So cheap Mexican labour can build SUV's instead of the plants up here doing it? So GM can make a few million more in profits on top of their billions in profits?

No wonder people crap on striking workers and wages have stagnated with inflation for decades. Corporations have turned us against each other and made us to feel "blessed" to have decent work, or in some cases, just "work" no matter how low paying and ####ty it is. Expect more for our workers and country ffs. God damn it guys.

Firstly, GM is not directly shifting production from Oshawa to other facilities; they are shifting production focus from vehicles that are built in Oshawa to vehicles that built at other facilities. The vehicles Oshawa makes are no longer part of GMs business, so they are closing those operations... Sounds pretty straightforward to me.

Secondly, public companies have a duty to their shareholders to maximize share value. if they were to continue to build market-less cars in a more expensive jurisdiction, they would be breaching this duty. Management at GM is obligated to make decisions like this.

Lastly, people are voting with their wallets. That's what got us to this point in the first place. For one, they no longer want the cars that are produced at the Oshawa facilities. Secondly - and I hope you see the irony in posing this to a Calgary-based forum - people aren't in a position to altruistically spend more than they need to in order to help other "workers". As you said, with 8% unemployment and further economic uncertainty, people here have to vote with their wallets and get the best pricing possible. That means more low-cost jurisdiction production for everything.

[White Out 403]

edit: will respond later since u edited ur post as i responded

[Locke]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Me: So I don't think people hearing me out. I'm not saying GM should do this because of C, I'm saying the public should give them incentive by voting with their wallets and expressing outrage.

you: *plugs ears and responds to "C" *

What?

You expressed outrage that GM was immensely profitable (not true) and that they were still laying off workers because they want to make the same cars somewhere cheaper (which, while not at all unreasonable is also not true) to line their pockets and kick workers to the curb (not true).

So...be clear and tell us what point you are actually trying to make. What are you really saying?

See? I told you if you kept trying you'd say something meaningful eventually. This isnt it, but at least you're still trying.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Me: So I don't think people hearing me out. I'm not saying GM should do this because of C, I'm saying the public should give them incentive by voting with their wallets and expressing outrage.

you: *plugs ears and responds to "C" *

Me: the public has already voted with their wallets, which is why GM is closing this plant.

You: I hope people would stop buying GM products from now on and in the future. This will incentivize GM to keep or reopen facilities that are producing vehicles that are no longer marketable. (????)

There should be no out rage, except for a few wool-over-the-eyes union die-hards. GM is doing exactly what you're asking for and responding to how the public has voted with their wallets. Outside of pure charity to the workers, there is zero basis for keeping the Oshawa plants open.

I mean, I feel for the people that were laid off from the last rotary phone factory...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by you&me

Me: the public has already voted with their wallets, which is why GM is closing this plant.

You: I hope people would stop buying GM products from now on and in the future. This will incentivize GM to keep or reopen facilities that are producing vehicles that are no longer marketable. (????)

There should be no out rage, except for a few wool-over-the-eyes union die-hards. GM is doing exactly what you're asking for and responding to how the public has voted with their wallets. Outside of pure charity to the workers, there is zero basis for keeping the Oshawa plants open.

I mean, I feel for the people that were laid off from the last rotary phone factory...

I dont. They were bad people and they deserved it.

Besides, now that GM is closing these plants the Governments should be overjoyed!

We are manufacturing fewer things and as such using far less Carbon and coming closer to hitting our Paris Accord targets!

And the Oshawa workers will live on The Dole.

Its win/win/win! Workers get paid for doing nothing and we're saving the environment and Trudeau looks good!

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Maybe I wasn't clear enough about what my point was I was trying to make, or, maybe I was and people don't care or agree.

Your anger is totally misplaced. Corporations are extremely predictable and it's been mentioned numerous times that Canada is the highest cost jurisdiction to produce vehicles. The jobs and growth evaporating from Canada is certainly not linked to a single corporate entity. Now lets look at why:

Highest Energy costs in North America = government decisions
Highest Labour costs in North America = union and government decisions
Highest corporate and taxation costs in North America = government decisions

If we want to support each other, it's by electing governments that will create the climate needed to attract businesses who create jobs and competition in our country. Getting rid of the disaster that is Wynne was a good first step, but there's more to be done.

[puckedoff]

It's weird you would think that by reorganizing their plants to accommodate the intersection of sex and gender they would really boost productivity. Very befuddling why more firms aren't boosting investment in Canada.