Russian Navy fires on and captures Ukrainian Warships

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I was told martial law will be approved by the parliament for 30 days. 60 days would have meant elections would be postponed, thereby guaranteeing Poroshenko's presidency past that point. That didn't sit well with many people. 30 days means elections will still happen.

Hallo....vote for me to lead Ukraine...

[undercoverbrother]

Russia, what a ####hole of a country.


A disgusting mess of a place with little interest in human rights or other's sovereignty.

[undercoverbrother]

https://news.sky.com/story/royal-nav...rimea-11564248

A Royal Navy warship was dangerously buzzed by 17 Russian fighter jets in an act of "brazen hostility" off the coast of Crimea.

HMS Duncan was leading a NATO fleet through the Black Sea when the incident occurred.

[CaptainCrunch]

Usually fly bys or buzzing of naval vessels isn't something that you do. There are lots of delicate systems on a ship that can be broken by a fly by, plus pilot error could be deadly.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

https://news.sky.com/story/royal-nav...rimea-11564248

This incident happened in May.

[FlameOn]

NATO ships should now just turn on the fire control radar and see how close those Russian jets are still willing to come.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

This incident happened in May.

But is being reported today (at least by the article date).

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

But is being reported today (at least by the article date).

That's fine, but this fly-by had nothing to do with the Russian Navy firing on Ukrainian Warships.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That's fine, but this fly-by had nothing to do with the Russian Navy firing on Ukrainian Warships.

Not directly, but it had to do with Russia's dick swinging.


Those waters are international (IIRC).

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Not directly, but it had to do with Russia's dick swinging.

Those waters are international (IIRC).

It's gone from swinging to slapping against our forehead at this point.

[FlameOn]

Added to tags.

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's gone from swinging to slapping against our forehead at this point.

So Ukraines government now claims it has credible evidence that Russia is planning a large scale invasion of Ukraine.

Earlier today,#Ukraine declared martial law#in response to the Russian actions#against its naval#vessels and the claims of a ‘large scale invasion’ being planned.

In a televised address to the nation, President Poroshenko said the move was necessary to defend Ukraine from a possible Russian invasion, he also promised that a presidential election scheduled for March would go ahead as planned.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/pres...being-planned/

[White Out 403]

I don't know what kind of world we will live in if Russia decides to invade Ukraine, but I feel like it's a legitimately scary prospect. WW3 is possible.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I don't know what kind of world we will live in if Russia decides to invade Ukraine, but I feel like it's a legitimately scary prospect. WW3 is possible.

They already invaded Ukraine once and nothing happened. They also invaded Georgia a few years back and nothing happened.

Nobody is willing to go to war over Russian invading non-NATO former USSR republics. They could take everything but the Baltics and no country would do anything other than sanctions.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They already invaded Ukraine once and nothing happened. They also invaded Georgia a few years back and nothing happened.

Nobody is willing to go to war over Russian invading non-NATO former USSR republics. They could take everything but the Baltics and no country would do anything other than sanctions.

A full scale invasion of Ukraine by the Russian army is a lot different than what happened in Crimea. Russian tanks in Kyiv? That's a big deal and it SHOULD be met with a military response.

[FlamesAddiction]

The thing is, who is going to try and stop them?

Trump? Unless his secret meetings were all about causing a war to thin the herd, then I don't see the U.S. leading the way. China? If anything, they have a lot of the same objectives and ideology.

And no way does the EU risk destroying themselves and fighting a war in their own backyards over Ukraine. Ukraine was administered by Russia through the U.S.S.R. within the life times of practically every world leader. Having it go back to that wouldn't be something that I think a lot of countries will send their young out to bleed for.

I just can't see anyone standing up to them. Now if they tried invading former satellite states like Romania or Poland, then for sure WW3 would break out.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Those waters are international (IIRC).

No, they are not. They are internal waterways to Russia and Ukraine. They are so strategically insignificant that no other countries care. Nonetheless, here is some legal discussion (in three parts):

1. https://voelkerrechtsblog.org/ukrain...e-sea-of-azov/

2. https://voelkerrechtsblog.org/ukrain...sea-of-azov-2/

3. https://voelkerrechtsblog.org/ukrain...sea-of-azov-3/

Regardless of the legal situation concerning the Kerch Strait, every vessel that wants to pass through it must announce its intentions well in advance, take a pilot and then pass the strait. This is a non-negotiable SOP and is done for the safety of the waterway, the other ships and the several-billion dollar Crimean Bridge. That's the way two Ukrainian naval vessels passed the strait two months ago. They didn't do it this time and here we are.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

That's a big deal and it SHOULD be met with a military response.

Such as?

[White Out 403]

1. The Ukranians are saying they did
2. If Russia invaded and occupied Ukraine? War. Simple.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

1. The Ukranians are saying they did
2. If Russia invaded and occupied Ukraine? War. Simple.

But who would fight in that war against Russia? Russia would soundly defeat any coalition that does not include the greater European powers, the USA or China. And I just can't see any of those powerful states getting involved over Ukraine. They won't like it and will complain and sanction them, but at the end of the day, no one will have the appetite to get involved IMO.

If Russia does a full on invasion and occupation of Ukraine, the Western powers will likely appease Putin by letting him annex the Donetsk region and release the rest of Ukraine, albeit with a puppet government.

Russia (either as Russia, or as the power centre of the Soviet Union) has invaded numerous countries since 1945 and no super powers challenging them all that much. It is pretty much a given that Russia and the USA can invade countries willy nilly.

China, Korea, Vietnam, Hungary, Germany, Czechoslovakia, Angola, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Georgia, Baltic states, Moldova, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, and a few others; have all been invaded by Russian militaries since WW2. And no offense to Ukraine as I believe in their struggle, but they are a minor concern to most world powers.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

1. The Ukranians are saying they did
2. If Russia invaded and occupied Ukraine? War. Simple.

Why do you think the Russians wish to invade? Because Poroshenko says so?



But, you didn't answer my question. I will try again. What should be "our" military response?