Poor defensive play of Gaudreau-Monahan line holding Flames back

[Jeff Lebowski]

Not getting much out of their entries so far

[Erick Estrada]

Meh. Any time I read stuff like this I get bad flashbacks to Pierre Page trying to turn Fleury into a 2-way player. You have to let player like Fleury and Johnny create offense and deal with some turnovers. I don't doubt that both of these players can make some improvements and Peters will work with them over time but it's not like they are Leon Draisaitl bad.

[timbit]

Poor response from Brodie.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Now do that for all the top scoring lines in the league. Basically they are paid to score, very few top line players are Anze Kopitar. Maybe if they weren't saddled with the black hole Brodie all night they may not be so bad considering his man is standing alone in front of the net all night.

The great Auston is minus 2.

How many top lines are great defensively? Boston. Who else?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by troutman

The great Auston is minus 2.

How many top lines are great defensively? Boston. Who else?

I’d be good if they were just ok defensively
Not asking for great
Just asking for adequate

[DJones]

Sadly Monahan just isn't that good. Lower end first line with a fantastic shot.

Mixed with gaudreau whose a straight up liability defensively and this is going to happen

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by troutman

The great Auston is minus 2.

How many top lines are great defensively? Boston. Who else?

That line is +3 5v5 according to the chart I posted above.

[N-E-B]

The 65-80 points they score is enough to offset their defensive shortcomings (which are overblown if you ask me).

[browna]

Peters style is quickly moving the puck up and out. Those 1st line guys are taking that to heart and getting an extra step out or higher up out of the zone when it looks like they may be getting possession, and anticipating that a check from the defender will spring them, maybe before the defenseman has full control. A bit more risk vs reward.

If the reward doesn't occur, it means that one or more forwards are a bit out of position which cascades into other defensive risks taken, depending on the situation, and Flames at best are running around in their own zone trying to get settled back and regain control.

3rd goal tonight was Monahan with the pass up to JG. It got missed as JG was a bit high and to the right of the pass, and the Habs turn it around and dirty Drouin finds the short side (that Rittich should've probably had). An extreme and easy to point out example of this happening, but it happens more subtly to this line and other lines more. A puck battle on the board looking to go the Flames way and a player skates up toward the line right away hoping for a break, when the puck bounces into the middle and scooped up by the oppenent,as worst case scenario. The next time it does go the Flames way and that player like JG has a step on a flat footed defenseman in the neutral zone becuase of that quick break.

I'll take the risk vs reward for those top guys becuase of what they can do offensively with space and time and speed. You read that stuff and you'd think they're all hanging out at the redline looking for a pass, when really they are taking an offensive approach granted to them by the coaches. And, they've played repsonsible defense for years. Again, risk vs reward.

For Wilson to use such dramatic language and flowery verbiage and scolding them as bring not contenders because of it, is pretty weak, but part of his "I'm smarter than most" shtick and attitude he's had for years now.

[DeluxeMoustache]

“That Rittich should have probably had.”

When you have, say, a 95% chance of stopping a certain type of shots and you have 20 such shots, it is likely that one of these will go in.

Goals happen and that wasn’t a bad one

[Finger Cookin]

"Poor defensive play of Flames holding Flames back"

[mrdonkey]

"Poor defensive play of Flames holding Flames back"

[Finger Cookin]

We're making some real progress here in this thread

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Now do that for all the top scoring lines in the league. Basically they are paid to score, very few top line players are Anze Kopitar.

True, not every team has a Kopitar. Or a Crosby, Backstrom, Bergeron, Toews, or Datsyuk. But the last 11 Cup winners all have.

Team defence, including the skilled guys at the top, wins Cups.

[stone hands]

Moneyhands is my favorite flame but boy howdy does he ever embody the controller disconnected meme in his own end the majority of the time

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

True, not every team has a Kopitar. Or a Crosby, Backstrom, Bergeron, Toews, or Datsyuk. But the last 11 Cup winners all have.

Team defence, including the skilled guys at the top, wins Cups.

Trade Monahan for Kopitar???

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

True, not every team has a Kopitar. Or a Crosby, Backstrom, Bergeron, Toews, or Datsyuk. But the last 11 Cup winners all have.

Team defence, including the skilled guys at the top, wins Cups.

How many of them were cup winners at 24 years old? If your bar is Crosby I expect you are going to be disappointed with 99% of forwards in the NHL when it comes to elite 2-way play.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Datsyuk, Kopitar and Toews were Cup winners by 24. Bergeron was 25.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Datsyuk and Toews were Cup winners by 24. Bergeron was 25.

Was Datsyuk that young? I remember the Flames and Oilers running all over him in 2004 and 2006 playoffs where he was a called out as being soft.

[Oling_Roachinen]

He was part of the 2002 Wings :P