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[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Is Toronto's defense significantly weaken that the Pittsburgh D that won back to back cups (keep in mind Letang payed 0 games in the 16/17 playoffs)?





Denying they're bonifide contenders requires being blinded to their significant attributes

No, it simply requires being less enamored with their overall balance than you are.

[Brick]

Ray Ferraro said the Oilers would not make the playoffs.
The panel consensus picked the Oilers as a wildcard.

Ray Ferraro is more credible.

[ST20]

Toronto took a very good Boston team to 7 games last year, have an incredibly deep forward group. Saying you've never heard of the third and fourth line guys is the same as another team saying they've never heard of mangiapne, dube, anderson, parsons and valamaki... It doesn't mean these guys aren't good. The Marlies have been fantastic for a few years now and the players are starting to filter into the NHL (look them up). Anderson has show to be a good number 1 and the team is very young and has gotten good playoff experience in the last two years. The defense isn't great but Rielly is a very good young dman and Gardiner is good offensively.

The team is a year older, has great experience and added a top 10-20 player. It's silly to think they aren't a legit contender. You aren't a "legit" contender until you win, I guess. Most people would've said the same about Washington because of their past choking last year but I guess this why they play the game!

Can't wait until the season starts tomorrow! i'll be enjoying both of the Leafs and Flames!

[Enoch Root]

Leafs are the 3rd best team in the Atlantic

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by mike f

toronto's forward lineup is scary deep even without nylander, and anderson is a legit #1. Centre ice is the most important position outside of goaltending, and the leafs ice tavares, matthews, and kardi. If you put that lineup in flames jerseys, i'b be contacting my doctor about an erection that lasts more than 4 hours.

Being a flames fan doesn't require you to be blinded to other teams' attributes.

b?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Is Toronto's defense significantly weaken that the Pittsburgh D that won back to back cups (keep in mind Letang payed 0 games in the 16/17 playoffs)?

Point was that people mentioned defense as a weakness. They were not underrating the Leaf offense.

Originally Posted by Mike F

Denying they're bonifide contenders requires being blinded to their significant attributes

Maybe he just turned off the TV because he couldn't stand the hype machine.

Seriously, why rush to defend the Leafs like you are? You're upset they're not getting enough respect? Seems an odd flag to plant in the ground.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by ST20

Toronto took a very good Boston team to 7 games last year, have an incredibly deep forward group. Saying you've never heard of the third and fourth line guys is the same as another team saying they've never heard of mangiapne, dube, anderson, parsons and valamaki... It doesn't mean these guys aren't good. The Marlies have been fantastic for a few years now and the players are starting to filter into the NHL (look them up). Anderson has show to be a good number 1 and the team is very young and has gotten good playoff experience in the last two years. The defense isn't great but Rielly is a very good young dman and Gardiner is good offensively.

The team is a year older, has great experience and added a top 10-20 player. It's silly to think they aren't a legit contender. You aren't a "legit" contender until you win, I guess. Most people would've said the same about Washington because of their past choking last year but I guess this why they play the game!

Can't wait until the season starts tomorrow! i'll be enjoying both of the Leafs and Flames!

They can start by winning a round. How can people stamp contenders on a team that has yet to beat another in a playoff series?

Yeah they came close against Boston, but then Boston was disposed of in 5 games by Tampa, which is why they're actually contenders.

Moves that were made have to show on the ice and that's not always the case. After 2-3 offseasons of the Flames beefing up their blue line, as awesome as it looked on paper every year going in, it didn't turn out elite when it came time to play. That's why it's foolish to just say a certain combination of players is an automatic shoo in to be playing into may or june. The Capitals arguably had a better roster on paper or years when they were routinely bumped in the first round. It took what was a less sexy roster on paper to form the right combination to actually go on a cup run.

Saying anything is for sure before the puck has dropped is cart before the horse hogwash. Be better than Oiler fans and let the season speak for itself.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Leafs are the 3rd best team in the Atlantic

Could even be 4th if Florida pulls it together.

[ST20]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

They can start by winning a round. How can people stamp contenders on a team that has yet to beat another in a playoff series?

Yeah they came close against Boston, but then Boston was disposed of in 5 games by Tampa, which is why they're actually contenders.

Moves that were made have to show on the ice and that's not always the case. After 2-3 offseasons of the Flames beefing up their blue line, as awesome as it looked on paper every year going in, it didn't turn out elite when it came time to play. That's why it's foolish to just say a certain combination of players is an automatic shoo in to be playing into may or june. The Capitals arguably had a better roster on paper or years when they were routinely bumped in the first round. It took what was a less sexy roster on paper to form the right combination to actually go on a cup run.

Saying anything is for sure before the puck has dropped is cart before the horse hogwash. Be better than Oiler fans and let the season speak for itself.

I don't think what we are saying is very different. It depends what you define as a contender. Making it to the finals? Semi? Quarters? Playoffs? Winning the first round would be nice but I don't think it makes or breaks you as a contender. In 2015 flames beat a crappy Vancouver team to advance but I believe they were far too young and not quite talented enough to be a contender. There are teams that get knocked out of the first round because their division is stacked that I would consider a contender. Sometimes it's just luck if the draw and how you match up with a certain team.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Leafs are the 3rd best team in the Atlantic

Really? I'd wager they are Top 2 by the end of the season

Boston has the best line in hockey hands down. The only problem is Bergeron is getting old and without him that Boston team just doesn't seem that scary too me. Krejci isn't what he used to be either. Their core is aging fast. This year it's a tossup but I would bet Leafs finish Top 2. Bruins are going to start fading though. Their core is too old.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Toronto's forward lineup is scary deep even without Nylander, and Anderson is a legit #1. Centre ice is the most important position outside of goaltending, and the Leafs ice Tavares, Matthews, and Kardi. If you put that lineup in Flames jerseys, I'b be contacting my doctor about an erection that lasts more than 4 hours.

Being a Flames fan doesn't require you to be blinded to other teams' attributes.

The leaf fans and media sure seem blind to other teams' strengths. It's like other clubs such as Nashville, Tampa, San Jose, Boston, the Pens and the defending champs are just going to let the leafs steamroll over them.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by Spinach

The leaf fans and media sure seem blind to other teams' strengths. It's like other clubs such as Nashville, Tampa, San Jose, Boston, the Pens and the defending champs are just going to let the leafs steamroll over them.

No one is saying "Season over. Leafs are the greatest team ever assembled. There is 0% chance that they don't win the cup."

They are saying that they are "contenders". This means prior to the season starting the Leafs look quite good on paper. They are one of the Top 5 teams but anything can happen.

Not exactly sure what you want "the media" to say. Maybe if TSN had a headline like LEAFS SUCK LOL! people would be happier?

[topfiverecords]

Neither the Leafs or the Oilers are making the playoffs this year.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Neither the Leafs or the Oilers are making the playoffs this year.

That's silly to say. The Leafs would have to undergo a monumental meltdown to not make the playoffs. They can and will score a lot of goals. That alone can get you in when the rest of the league doesn't score a ton of goals.

However, what happens once they're in the playoffs is certainly up for debate. Depth seems to be one of the biggest factors in playoff success these days, and while the Leafs have forward depth to spare, they lack defensive depth.

I like Rielly on the top pair, but he needs a much better partner than Hainsey if they hope to win some playoff rounds. That guy should be on their 3rd pair, which would be instantly improved over the likes of Marincin, Dermott, Toll, or Ozhiganov.

I think Gardiner and Zaitsev make a perfectly acceptable 2nd pair. Zaitsev is much better than the we give him credit for, and Gardiner is a strong offensive player.

Here's the thing: The Leafs have $12 million in cap space (don't ask me how). That means they can go out and pick up a top pair defenseman at the trade deadline without even blinking an eye (as long as one is available). Do that and the defense goes from questionable to solid/good.

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Plug-Plug

Rielly-(Deadline Acquisition)
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Plug-Hainsey

IMO, the Leafs have just as good a chance as anyone if they can trade for that one defenseman. Might be hard to find one available, but if they do, they could make some serious noise.

I'm just trying to be objective about their chances. They're pretty good.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Here's the thing: The Leafs have $12 million in cap space (don't ask me how).

Simple - they only have 4 guys making over $5 mil. Half their "star-power" is on the last year of their entry level contracts. They may also have the most regulars under $1 mil - 8 forwards, 2 d, 1 goalie.

Great for getting a UFA top d-man this year (who I don't know).

Next year is the cap crunch. If Nylander signs for $6 mil - that's half the available space. The lowest projected numbers I have seen are Matthews @ $10 mil & Marner @ $7 - some have had it as high as $12 & $9 respectively.


Add to that their 5 RFAs and that only $8 mil is coming off the books (will need 2 new d-men) and suddenly $12 - $14 mil in cap space doesn't seem like a lot.

[iLoveLamp]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Could even be 4th if Florida pulls it together.

LOL. I like the Panthers this year, but you're delusional if you think they'll be better than the Leafs.

[Erick Estrada]

Leafs will be an interesting team this season. Defensively on paper they look average/below average and on the ice under Babcock they have played even worse than that. They should score a lot of goals and have periods where they are letting in a lot of goals. Very talented but flawed team but they are paying Babcock to win a cup not do well in the regular season. Last season he got outcoached in the playoffs by a 2nd year head coach.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by iLoveLamp

LOL. I like the Panthers this year, but you're delusional if you think they'll be better than the Leafs.

That's what we're talking about right there. It's okay if others don't think the Leafs are top 5, you'll live.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Neither the Leafs or the Oilers are making the playoffs this year.

Whaaaaat? Have you seen that division they play in? It’s the worst division in the league and it’s not even close. Both Ottawa and Montreal have gotten even worse, Detroit and Buffalo are still rebuilding and Florida will likely just be average. Not only do I see the Leafs making the playoffs, but they’ll probably clinch a spot even earlier than they did last season and that’s saying a lot because by the half way point last season, they were firmly entrenched in a playoff position.

[topfiverecords]

Still not happening.

Atl:
1. Tampa Bay
2. Boston
3. Florida

Met:
1. Washington
2. Columbus
3. Pittsburgh

WC1. Philadelphia
WC2. New Jersey

9. Toronto
10. Buffalo
11. N.Y. Rangers
12. New York Islanders
13. Montreal
14. Carolina
15. Ottawa
16. Detroit