Flames Management Confidence - Draft/Develop

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Drafted all the right guys with high picks since Treliving took over. They are all about taking chances on smaller players with high skill and hockey IQ/compete level, and far less about sheer brute strength and size. This is a strong prospect base considering all the talent that has graduated in recent years with plenty of bullets left in the chamber. Probably one of the strongest defense prospect groups in the NHL leading into this most recent off-season before Fox was shipped out.

I'm pretty conifident in the drafting abilities and development has been much better in recent years.

[Regorium]

Gave a 1 due to his propensity for trading away draft picks. He also kept Janko in the minors too long and signed various terrible stopgaps when our prospects were ready (glass, bartkowski, lack).

[Lanny_McDonald]

3. Have drafted some good prospects, but waiting for them to step up and make a difference. We'll see shortly how good they are at development as these players try to push their way into the lineup. Need more Tkachuks and less Bennetts.

[mrdonkey]

I had to go with a 2 here. Hard to fault Tre too much about Bennett since he was the consensus pick, but I also don't think he's been put in a position to succeed either. Some promising names on defense but that's all they are right now, and I wouldn't say they're all that different from players other teams have in their pipelines. At forward things look laughably grim after trading away so many picks, and I'm not sure I agree with the philosophy of signing plugs so that prospects can "over-ripen" in the minors.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Dion

I think the team has done a good job of drafting since Tre took over as GM.

My only knock is the drafting of Bennett. Agree that it's still too early to write him off but at the same time I am a bit worried about his development.

This is a brutal, rear-view mirror take.

Sam Bennett was ranked #1 by central scouting. He was top 3 on every single list, and by every single analyst out there. No one - literally no one - had him outside the top 4.

So to sit here now and criticize the drafting of him at #4 is a flat out horrendous take, sorry.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I'd say 4 for drafting and 3 for development, so I'll just split the difference and round up and say 4 :P

Don't worry, I said 4 for drafting, 3 for development too, but rounded down to 3. So we are in for a 3.5

[killer_carlson]

I think Bennett was poorly handled which is a problem with what his pedigree is. Saddling your highest ever draft pick with Brouwer was a total miss.

Shinkaruk jumped the line a few times over other prospects.

I think that Stajan, versteeg and Brouwer should have been moved last year and Dube and others moved into the roll.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think Bennett was poorly handled which is a problem with what his pedigree is. Saddling your highest ever draft pick with Brouwer was a total miss.

Shinkaruk jumped the line a few times over other prospects.

I think that Stajan, versteeg and Brouwer should have been moved last year and Dube and others moved into the roll.

You couldn’t bring Dube up except permanently. And to move those guys you need a trading partner.

And it’s “role”.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You couldn’t bring Dube up except permanently. And to move those guys you need a trading partner.

And it’s “role”.

Thanks for the spelling tips. I'll let auto correct know.

Dube out played those veterans in camp.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Thanks for the spelling tips. I'll let auto correct know.

Dube out played those veterans in camp.

Camp is camp. He also outplayed every other F prospect except Jankowski. Point is they couldn’t bring him up except to the NHL.

[Strange Brew]

This is hard to evaluate for the current regime. The picks that have made it to the show were the obvious ones.

No fault for the Bennett pick but in hindsight he could have been handled better it would seem. Ferland is a great example of a player who was developed by the organization.

Still much of the bottom of the roster is made up of UFA’s which isnt exactly how you want it. So guess I’ll say average but time will tell.

[Bingo]

I went 4 ... this looks to be emerging as their bread and butter.

The word after drafts always seems to come down to discussion now, and not top down autocracy. Lists that are built through hashing out prospects, and then a Treliving wrinkle where he calls an audible in later drafts to come off the list for skills players with limitations, and then having the scouts pick a specific player based on passion from one or more of the group.

It's ended up in Mangiapane, Phillips and others and has bolstered the the prospect group with more assets that I've ever been used to in my days following the team (all of them I guess).

2015/2016 were seismic shifts in the prospect pool, 2017 and 2018 are too early. 2014 was odd but so soon after Treliving was hired that I think he didn't have full control at the time.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, current management is graded on the basis of your memories of long past management?

That is just weird.

Not really.

Would you continue to eat at restaurant that you received multiple food poisonings from after hearing it's under "new management"?

I take the "show me first" approach, and that can take years to change a view or perspective

[cral12]

I went 4.

Probably could argue 3.

Didn't like Hunter Smith & Mason McDonald picks at the time or now (those are the standouts). Some really great value picks in last number of years though so like where this is headed. A tad worried about Bennett's development but his play early kind of forced the team's hand. Seems like they're doing all the right things in terms of development these days with the slow "cooking" maturing guys in the A.
Really like how they've changed tact from drafting focus on size to skill, skating without so much concern for size.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by saXon

Not really.

Would you continue to eat at restaurant that you received multiple food poisonings from after hearing it's under "new management"?

I take the "show me first" approach, and that can take years to change a view or perspective

Or if you received a performance review at work, and the previous people in that role affected the result negatively. You'd be okay with that, because of your food poisoning example.

Makes sense.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Itse

1st and 2nd are high. 5th and below are low.

IMO one the best long term strategies to guarantee your team wallow in mediocrity is to trade away a lot of draft picks. Pretty much by definition you never get as high value as its possible to get from a draft pick, but you rarely completely strike out either. This is especially true on the cap world, where young stars on ELCs are an invaluable edge you just can't get otherwise.

So by trading away draft picks you gain certainty of some success, but lose the possibility of a lot of success.

Then it seems you are forgetting the draft picks he accumulate when trading Glencross, Hudler, Berra and Russell. I think he's acquired as many picks as he's traded. And really, the only first round picks he traded were for pretty core pieces. Hamilton, Smith, Hamonic. Even those were bottom half picks except for Hamonic and that was only barely a top half pick.

[Savvy27]

Went with 2. I like what they have done with their top 10 picks, but still waiting on players drafted outside of that to actually make an impact.

Guys like Hathaway and Foo have jumped to the front of the line while developing in the NCAA ahead of homegrown players on their AHL team, including first round picks like Klimchuk, Poirier and Shinkaruk.

Its promising to see what Mangiapane did last season but when called up he put up zero points in 10 games and had a negligible impact outside of that.

The Flames have not graduated a goalie prospect in an incredibly long amount of time and now it looks like Rittich (a pro signing) will outduel Gillies (a draft pick developed in the system) for an NHL job.

Admittedly, 2 is harsh but I'm going to hold off on praising this management group until the promising prospects turn into important players.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Then it seems you are forgetting the draft picks he accumulate when trading Glencross, Hudler, Berra and Russell. I think he's acquired as many picks as he's traded. And really, the only first round picks he traded were for pretty core pieces. Hamilton, Smith, Hamonic. Even those were bottom half picks except for Hamonic and that was only barely a top half pick.

Treliving did not trade a first round pick for Smith:

ike Smith to Flames for • Brandon Hickey • rights to Chad Johnson • 2018 conditional round pick (second round if Flames qualify for 2018 playoffs, else third round) (#74-Niklas Nordgren) on 2017-06-17.

He has only traded two first round picks in his tenure as GM: one went in the Hamilton acquisition, and the other for Haminic.

[Yrebmi]

Shout out to cragwg who has consistently voted 1 (lowest) in every one of these poles.
I don't know which team you cheer for but it's not the Flames.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Or if you received a performance review at work, and the previous people in that role affected the result negatively. You'd be okay with that, because of your food poisoning example.

Makes sense.

Funny how that happens every friggen day in the work force....