Flames Management Confidence - Cap Management

[Vinny01]

I really wish the Flames would have paid the $7.5-$8M AAV it would have took to get the 8 year deal for Johnny. The way the contracts have gone it would have been a steal and we would still have 6 years of term left.

Locking up the Core of this team to a cap hit no higher than $6.75M is great work. This summer with Stajan expiring and Brouwer bought out all that bad money in the bottom 6 is gone. Frolik and Ryan represent the $7M in the bottom 6 and that is a big upgrade.

I am interested to see what Hanifin comes in at but I am guessing 5.5M for 6 years. Hope they can get 7 though.

[cral12]

4

So many great contracts; Brouwer brings it down from a 5 though

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I really wish the Flames would have paid the $7.5-$8M AAV it would have took to get the 8 year deal for Johnny. The way the contracts have gone it would have been a steal and we would still have 6 years of term left.

Locking up the Core of this team to a cap hit no higher than $6.75M is great work. This summer with Stajan expiring and Brouwer bought out all that bad money in the bottom 6 is gone. Frolik and Ryan represent the $7M in the bottom 6 and that is a big upgrade.

I am interested to see what Hanifin comes in at but I am guessing 5.5M for 6 years. Hope they can get 7 though.

I imagine they "would have". Now, "could have" is different. The option may not have been available from Gaudreau's perspective.

[jayswin]

Yeah, I can't imagine the Flames weren't all in on an 8 year deal for Gaudreau. I think at the time Gaudreau was incredibly family based (still is obviously) and hadn't acquired enough attachment to Calgary, and saw home or near home as his ultimate landing place.

He most likely didn't want to bail short term but also didn't want to commit to eight years on the others side of the continent. I think if he was a signing this contract a year later he likely would have gone seven or eight. However, now that what's done is done I think he is gone after this contract.

[jayswin]

Which used to scare me, but now that we're building a pretty deep team, I think we could easily a) get a star back for him (possibly younger) or b) get an absolute haul of picks/prospects, especially if we're heading into a rebuild/retool.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by jayswin

...I think if [Gaudreau] was a signing this contract a year later he likely would have gone seven or eight. However, now that what's done is done I think he is gone after this contract.

I know this is a common sentiment, but I am not convinced this will be a forgone conclusion—not by a long shot.

Gaudreau is ALWAYS among the group who makes calls to welcome new players to the team, and he has on a few occasions helped to recruit UFAs. He has been part of the Calgary Stampede Parade for three straight years, and this year brought along his dad. I think Gaudreau is committed to Calgary and to the Flames.

[taxbuster]

Selected 3 - moderate because they've been really good part of the time, running right up against the cap, so a 5 --- which has been trashed by having some truly stupid contracts...so a 1.

Maybe it depends on which contracts they have at any given moment whether one views them well or not. They're OK, but take way too many dumb vet contracts.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I know this is a common sentiment, but I am not convinced this will be a forehand conclusion—not by a long shot.

Gaudreau is ALWAYS among the group who makes calls to welcome new players to the team, and he has on a few occasions helped to recruit UFAs. He has been part of the Calgary Stampede Parade for three straight years, and this year brought along his dad. I think Gaudreau is committed to Calgary and to the Flames.

Nothing to disagree with here text, except that I think it was a growing connection, that was less established each year you go back.

[kehatch]

Great with managing the top end. But a buyout a year and too much money on depth guys has us at the cap and lowers the score from a 5.

[Aarongavey]

I went with 2, but could have been a 3 as well. UFA's have generally been bad, most memorable ones being Raymond and Brouwer.

RFA's have been ok. Still do not understand how Monahan gets the most AAV between himself, Barkov, MacKinnon, Scheifele in the offseason that he was signed. Not a huge thing, but if BT is a cap wizard, those other GM's are even better, like super wizard. Gaudreau was a good contract. His other RFA's have been rather meh.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I went with 2, but could have been a 3 as well. UFA's have generally been bad, most memorable ones being Raymond and Brouwer.

RFA's have been ok. Still do not understand how Monahan gets the most AAV between himself, Barkov, MacKinnon, Scheifele in the offseason that he was signed. Not a huge thing, but if BT is a cap wizard, those other GM's are even better, like super wizard. Gaudreau was a good contract. His other RFA's have been rather meh.

All of the guys you mentioned exploded after their firs RFA contract was signed. Monahan was simply showing steady progress and was paid accordingly.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

RFA's have been ok. Still do not understand how Monahan gets the most AAV between himself, Barkov, MacKinnon, Scheifele in the offseason that he was signed.

..Monahan | 237 GP | 80 G | 79 A | 159 P | 0.67 P/G | 15 GWG | 5 OTG | 15.2 SH% | 18:19 TOI/GP | 49.2 FO%
MacKinnon | 218 GP | 59 G | 94 A | 153 P | 0.70 P/G | 13 GWG | 0 OTG | 08.7 SH% | 17:46 TOI/GP | 46.8 FO%
Scheifele | 227 GP | 58 G | 87 A | 145 P | 0.64 P/G | 07 GWG | 2 OTG | 12.2 SH% | 17:36 TOI/GP | 43.2 FO%
...Barkov | 191 GP | 52 G | 67 A | 119 P | 0.62 P/G | 12 GWG | 0 OTG | 13.6 SH% | 18:03 TOI/GP | 48.1 FO%


Except for total assists and points per game, Monahan led every statistical category among those four players. At that point, Monahan already had one 30+ Goal season and two 60 point seasons. He had 20+ Goals in each of his three seasons.

MacKinnon followed up a Calder Trophy rookie year with a couple of disappointing seasons. Scheifele and Barkov both showed steady progress, but Monahan's progress was better.


Also, the difference between them isn't really that much. You can't even sign a league-minimum contract for the difference between Monahan and Barkov's contracts.

• Monahan: 7 years @ $6.375M
• MacKinnon: 7 years @ $6.3M
• Scheifele: 8 years @ $6.125M
• Barkov: 6 years @ $5.9M

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by getbak

..Monahan | 237 GP | 80 G | 79 A | 159 P | 0.67 P/G | 15 GWG | 5 OTG | 15.2 SH% | 18:19 TOI/GP | 49.2 FO%
MacKinnon | 218 GP | 59 G | 94 A | 153 P | 0.70 P/G | 13 GWG | 0 OTG | 08.7 SH% | 17:46 TOI/GP | 46.8 FO%
Scheifele | 227 GP | 58 G | 87 A | 145 P | 0.64 P/G | 07 GWG | 2 OTG | 12.2 SH% | 17:36 TOI/GP | 43.2 FO%
...Barkov | 191 GP | 52 G | 67 A | 119 P | 0.62 P/G | 12 GWG | 0 OTG | 13.6 SH% | 18:03 TOI/GP | 48.1 FO%


Except for total assists and points per game, Monahan led every statistical category among those four players. At that point, Monahan already had one 30+ Goal season and two 60 point seasons. He had 20+ Goals in each of his three seasons.

MacKinnon followed up a Calder Trophy rookie year with a couple of disappointing seasons. Scheifele and Barkov both showed steady progress, but Monahan's progress was better.


Also, the difference between them isn't really that much. You can't even sign a league-minimum contract for the difference between Monahan and Barkov's contracts.

• Monahan: 7 years @ $6.375M
• MacKinnon: 7 years @ $6.3M
• Scheifele: 8 years @ $6.125M
• Barkov: 6 years @ $5.9M

Hard to say that Monahan's progress was better than Scheifele's at the time of the contract signing, Scheifele's PPG in his final ELC year was higher, he had more goals than Monahan in the last ELC year. Maybe Winnipeg is a more attractive market to sign and play in, but their direct comparables make the Scheifele contract a better contract at the time it was signed than the Monahan contract IMO. A steal of a contract would have been Monahan at around 6 million, the extra 375K a year was merely paying what any other GM would have likely been able to sign him for that offseason.

I guess if signing Monahan for slightly higher than his direct comparables is enough to make BT a cap management genius, fair enough. I see a guy who, outside of the Gaudreau contract has been average with RFA's and terrible with UFA's, thus why I said in my opinion he is a 2, but said it could have been a 3. 3 buyouts is also a sign of bad cap management.

That being said, I do think cap management and trades are his strengths.

[GioforPM]

Average with RFAs? The only bad RFA contract I can think of was Bouna’s and that was corrected. He also was ahead of the curve on not re-signing Colborne.

[Sylvanfan]

Given that he's managing a Canadian based team that has been bad for about 8 years he's done reasonably well. Fact is he has money to spend and the cream of the crop is not as interested in his money as they are in say Steve Yzermans. So he's done well with his RFA's, and tried for the UFA's that will bat an eye his way. He's not afraid to move on when it doesn't work. As much as you hate buyouts.. it's probably a better move to remove an underperformer from the roster than keep the player around

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Every team’s buyout money is on Cap Friendly. Flames are high. In fact I looked at about 8 teams and all were lower than Flames $2.4 million.

I put Flames above average for cap management. Some favorable contracts, no single awful contract but a propensity to overpay for middle and lower roster players in both dollars and term limits their flexibility.

$2.4M in buyouts means we can't afford to overpay another Bouma/Raymond/Brouwer type. It'ss the most negligible thing to worry about in a world where the cap is pushing $80M.

As of right now, every player on this roster could be traded for something of note rather than bought out.

That's hard to do.

[Freeway]

Went 3. Had to buy out players in consecutive seasons, had to rely on Smid LTIR in order to stay under cap in another year.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by the2bears

I imagine they "would have". Now, "could have" is different. The option may not have been available from Gaudreau's perspective.

A lot of speculation during that negotiation that Gaudreau wanted the Tarasenko contract or maybe a little more and the Flames did not want to pay more than Gio. Also the Flames did not want to set the precedent for contracts for players who didn’t have web rights. I could be wrong but Johnny also could not sign an offer sheet so all he could do is sit out.

[The Boy Wonder]

you win some you lose some and really for us to be in the cap situation we are where frolik is our worst contract puts us in better shape than most teams in the league